LZW31-SN 4 way switch not working correctly

Switches Wiring Discussion
#1

Hi guys,
I’m hoping someone on here could help me out. I’m having issues with my recently installed LZW31-SN switch. It is wired into a 4 way configuration with a neutral wire and a single LED bulb as the load. It is wired up with 2 other “dumb” switches and parameter 22 is set @ 1. The LZW31-SN is wired into the 3-way switch box with the line wire. The other 3 way switch box has the load wire to the light. When I first set this switch up, it worked exactly as it should. It recognized when the other switches were toggled on/off and was able to control the light regardless of the state of the other 2 switches. A couple days later though it has stopped working correctly and I’ve been unable to figure out why.

Here is the behaviour I’m experiencing -

-When light is turned on via other 2 switches, the LZW31-SN is able to turn on and off the light but the power meter does not read correctly (Power meter reads 8W when light is on, 5W when light is off)

-When light is turned off via other 2 switches, the LZW31-SN is unable to turn on and off the light. (Power meter reads 5W when LZW31-SN is showing on, and reads 0W when LZW31 is showing off)

-If light was turned on via other 2 switches, then turned off via LZW31 switch, then the first toggle on one of the other switches will not turn on the light (But power meter will go from 0W to 5W). The 2nd toggle will turn on the light (Power meter @ 8W).

This seems like a wiring issue but I have checked and rechecked my wiring and have not found the problem. Also, it worked as designed when I first set it up which makes it seem unlikely that it would be an issue with the wiring. I have no idea what could have changed. I have tried factory resetting the switch and starting over but I have run into the same problems.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

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#2

I agree that if the switches worked correctly and aren’t now, it does not suggest a wiring problem.

I suppose that it’s possible the switch could have gone bad, but I’d be test to make sure the LED isn’t causing problems. Can you swap the LED bulb out for an incandescent?

#3

Yea I actually did try putting in a 100W incandescent but no luck.Same behaviour.

#4

HI,

I have two thoughts…

  1. While unlikely, I would recheck the wiring as it connects at the devices. Especially on the Inovelli. I once had the wire on the wrong side of the clamping plate and the connection seemed good but was not. However it sounds like you’ve already checked the wiring thoroughly.

  2. I know you said that parameter 22 was set at 1. However others have had trouble with parameters 21 and 22 not “taking” right away and they’ve had to repeat setting those parameters.

What hub are you using? If using Hubitat Hub you can temporarily replace the driver with “Basic Z-Wave Tool” with this tool you can read parameters from the switch (they will show in the live log).

BTW does this installation have a neutral connected to the Inovelli “neutral” ?

Another thought, when you say

-When light is turned on via other 2 switches,

Do you mean you switched both switches or each one at a time?
From the dimmers’s point of view both your 4-way and your dumb 3-way do exactly the same thing electrically. So when you test you should change only one at a time.

Do you have access to a multimeter or voltage checker? If not I would suggest something like this it can tell you if a wire has voltage on it or not. The way to check the Inovelli is to measure from the “Load” terminal to neutral. It should go ON-OFF when switching the dimmer. Then measure the “Traveler” it should go OFF - ON (reversed from the load output).

Simply stated, the Inovelli should supply power out the “LOAD” terminal when ON
And out the “Traveler” terminal when OFF.

#5

Thanks very much for your response.

While unlikely, I would recheck the wiring as it connects at the devices. Especially on the Inovelli. I once had the wire on the wrong side of the clamping plate and the connection seemed good but was not. However it sounds like you’ve already checked the wiring thoroughly.

Yup, I actually had a similar connection issue when I first wired it up but I’ve made sure that all my connections are good now.

I know you said that parameter 22 was set at 1. However others have had trouble with parameters 21 and 22 not “taking” right away and they’ve had to repeat setting those parameters.

What hub are you using? If using Hubitat Hub you can temporarily replace the driver with “Basic Z-Wave Tool” with this tool you can read parameters from the switch (they will show in the live log).

I’m using the SmartThings hub which is also where I set the parameters. The parameters appear to be sticking so I don’t believe that this is the issue. Here’s a screenshot of my parameter setting so far.

Inovelli%20preferences
Inovelli preferences.PNG1858×849 12.5 KB

BTW does this installation have a neutral connected to the Inovelli “neutral” ?

Yes it does. I had to wire it up from a nearby outlet.

-When light is turned on via other 2 switches,

Do you mean you switched both switches or each one at a time?
From the dimmers’s point of view both your 4-way and your dumb 3-way do exactly the same thing electrically. So when you test you should change only one at a time.

I meant that if I turn the light on from either of the other 2 switches.it does not seem to matter which of the switches I toggle in order to turn the light on.

Simply stated, the Inovelli should supply power out the “LOAD” terminal when ON
And out the “Traveler” terminal when OFF.

So my behavior here is definitely not right. I got my multi-meter out and measured across the “Load” and “Traveler” terminals.

With LZW31 off:
Traveler -> Neutral = 65 V
Load -> Neutral = 85 V

With LZW31 on but light is off:
Traveler -> Neutral = 65 V
Load -> Neutral = 120 V

With LZW31 on and light is on:
Traveler -> Neutral = 65 V
Load -> Neutral = 135 V

So clearly not getting the right voltage outputs here. I’m getting a constant 65 V through the traveler terminal. I also seem to have a base voltage of 85 W from the load terminal when both the switch and the light are off. Then I get the 120 line voltage when the switch is toggled on but the light is off. Then if I turn the light on from one of the other switches the voltage jumps up to 135V which is more than my line voltage.

Any thoughts on this? Because I have no idea what’s going on here.

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#6

Could be a “dimmer” problem? I’ve had trouble getting dimmers to work properly in 3-way installations. When I swapped them out and installed a switch, I had no problems. I am using current “black series”.

#7

Yea, it may be. Unfortunately I don’t have the “on/off” Inovelli switch to test that with. But that may be the way to go if I can’t get this dimmer to work.

#8

I think you’ve gone above and beyond troubleshooting. I believe the next step is to RMA it to Inovelli.

John

BTW I’m not associated with Inovelli, just got started on these topics after troubleshooting my installation :slight_smile:

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#9

While you all are already fresh on this, I have a question. My LZW31 is wired up just like on page 7 of the wiring diagram. I’m using dumb 3 and 4 way switches exactly as the diagram shows. I have a SmartThings hub and downloaded the drivers from Github. works fine turning on and off and using the dimmer. Now for the fun.

  • If the LZW31 is turned off, neither of the two dumb switches can turn on the lights.
  • If the LZW31 is on then the dumb switches work the light just fine.
  • When the LZW31 is turned on, there is voltage on the Load side of the switch and no voltage on the Traveler
  • When the LZW31 is turned off, there is voltage on the Load side of the switch and no voltage on the Traveler

It appears that the Traveler inside the switch is not connected or something. Otherwise is there some parameter that I need to set that tells the switch something? BTW, I have about six Gen1 Inovelli’s that have been great and have been waiting on the 4-way capability for a while.

Regards

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#10

Hi,

Is your installation a “non Neutral” type? There are two wiring sheets and the diagrams I have do not have a diagram on page 7. Can you post?

BTW Gen 1’s will work fine in a 4way as long as the dimmer has a neutral.

John

#11

Mine is the first setup with Line and load in separate boxes on page 7 of this


I have the LZW31’s that don’t need neutral unless wired as a 4-way

#12

Page 7 is a title page. There are no drawings on it.

#13

Oops, page 8, first diagram.

#14

Seems to be the same issue as the OP of this tread. If you have the Parameters 22 Set to 1 and are sure the switch has saved Parm 22 as a 1 then you likely have a hardware issue and need to contact Inovelli Direct.

This is a missunderstanding. The need for a neutral is not related to the dimmer being a single, 3-Way, 4-Way or 6-Way…etc.

It is ALWAYS better to have the neutral connected regardless of the configuration. Its existence is to allow installation where there is not neutral to be had, but at the expense of interacting with the load and the possible (likely) need for a bypass.

#15

Setting Parameter 22 to 1 did the trick. I guess it enables the Traveler. I claim ignorance. Didn’t have to do this with Gen1. Thanks for the help. I won’t forget this setting.

#16

I also have a few Gen1s and LZW31s with a ST hub. The circuitry is different in the two dimmers, so there was nothing extra needed to do in setup for a gen1 in a 3-way or 4-way. The traveler wire actually didn’t carry current to the load and there was no internal relay in the dimmer as there is in the LZW31.

In the new dimmer, a relay switches the current between the load and traveler terminals, much like a mechanical 3-way switch does. Parameter 22 tells the LZW31 what sort of setup it is in, whether single-pole (default) or 3/4-way setup which then activates the internal relay to switch the current between load/traveler. This parameter is also exposed in the ST app (I still use the classic app), and it is the setting for “Switch Type”, defaulting to “Load Only” vs the other options of 3-way toggle and 3-way momentary.

Since they changed the circuitry between Gen1 and LZW31, it is very important to note that wiring diagrams for 3-way circuits are different to account for how the terminals behave.

#17

So what is the effective behavior difference for parameter 22 set at 1 or 2? 0 is self explanatory for a 2-way configuration with power going out the load terminal. The manual specifies 1 for dumb switches and 2 for aux switches, which correspond to 3-way toggle and 3-way momentary. Both 3-way configurations with some difference in switch behavior.

#18

It’s how the smart switch circuit behaves with respect to its terminals. In a dumb 3-way setup (toggle), the switch is sending the load current down either the load terminal or the traveler terminal, switching between the two when the paddle button is hit locally or if remotely given the command over z-wave.
In the case of Aux switches, the smart switch doesn’t send the load current to any of those switches, but instead monitors the traveler terminal for a completed circuit to neutral (via the Aux switches), and when it senses a change in the circuit, it will know to toggle the load on or off. This is actually very similar to how Gen1 switches were designed and the other side could just be a dumb switch (didn’t even need a 3-way dumb switch).

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#19

That makes perfect sense, thanks! It also explains some of the complaints about one of the travelers not being powered properly!

#20

Interesting, we have same LZW31-SN setup and it too failed over time. Inovelli RMA’d it immediately (great service), all was good a few days and now failing. Not had chance to check everything again but beginning to think this is a broader issue.

Can anyone from Inovelli please chime in?

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