Hello @Eric_Inovelli how’s things with you? Any new you can give us, any more information you need? Can’t wait to hit that 10-pack button a couple of times.
Hey yeah, I do have some news!
We’ve finished the PRD (Project Request Document) based on all of your feedback and have sent it off to a manufacturer. There has been a ton of back and forth and they are currently finishing up analyzing it. I’m hoping to have pricing from them next week or beginning of May at the latest.
I’ve also managed to get approved to setup an LLC (can’t remember what the EU equivalent is) in Estonia so that I can get the inovelli.eu URL and also take care of the business side of things. I know it’s not directly switch related, but it is essential for being able to sell out there. My plan is to have a European website that you can go to purchase the product once it’s finished production (I’m still up in the air about using the website vs Kickstarter for the initial pre-order – I’m leaning towards Kickstarter or Indiegogo since I’m sure no one knows who we are out in Europe and would be weary of spending money on our site).
Once we get the pricing, I plan to share all the details with you guys and we can work on a final product (final design) before I put it up on Kickstarter/Indiegogo or our website.
Sorry it’s taken so long, I’ve actually been really excited about this and didn’t think it would take so long to get quotes.
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I just wanted to also say how much I appreciate everyone’s input on this. It’s been tremendously helpful in putting together the PRD. I also have someone from the UK (but spends half of his time in Milan) who is managing this project with me who has a ton of experience with smart home development (he ran a large European company I know you all have heard of) that I would consider my friend. He’s taken a lot of the feedback and confirmed a lot of what everyone has said, so I know we’re in good hands. It’s taken a lot of stress off me as I don’t want to screw this up!
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Awesome Eric thanks for the update! Managing projects always takes time from idea to product so no worries. I rather have it take a little extra time to have it done the right way. Looking forward to the coming updates!
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Some good news, I heard back from my contact and he said the manufacturer has a quote coming by Sunday at the latest!
So, fingers crossed we have some news by Monday 
PS - feel free to keep nudging me every now and then, I really don’t mind as I am usually in 100 different places in my mind haha.
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That’s awesome. Then we’ll talk Monday, Swedish time 
When this lands here in the UK it’s gonna be a game changer. Thanks for the update Eric!
Good morning Eric! Any news?
Count me in.
Update: I received the quote and it’s favorable. I just have a follow up question bc they gave me an alternate design that’s intriguing. I just want to make sure I understand the capabilities before sharing.
I should have an answer tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest.
Either way, I think we’re good to go bc the original design was also quoted (the top row):
The MOQ (minimum order qty) is fairly large compared to what we’re used to, so hopefully the demand is really there, but I have confidence in you guys!
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Alright, here are the details – I got the response quicker than I thought.
Here’s what the switch is scheduled to look like based on several rounds of feedback from the engineers and in working with our EU counterpart who knows the rules/regulations of the EU (I’ll outline them below).
Here are the highlights:
- This will be a standard 1-Gang switch (we tried to explore having 3 Load terminals + 3 Neutral terminals + 1 Line terminal + 1-3 Travelers + 1 Ground screw, but it would’ve made the switch too thick to fit in some of the standard gang-boxes.
- We’ll test the feasibility of a 1-Gang first and then if it sells well, we can use the profits to create a 2 and 3-Gang option
- This will not work in a 3-Way scenario, but rather we will use Zigbee Bindings to pair two smart switches together.
- This was a back and forth between us, the manufacturer and my EU contact as I thought it would be important to have 3-Way compatibility, but they mentioned 3-Way’s aren’t that popular out in the EU unless it’s a large house and we’d have to develop an Aux Switch, which is an additional cost for such a small market. So, the option to keep the costs down was to remove the traveler terminal and opt for Zigbee Bindings.
- NOTE: I can still be swayed if you guys think this is important and/or we made a mistake here. Please let me know!
- The two buttons on the top can be used as virtual buttons to trigger scenes, configure your switch without a hub, etc – similar to our favorites button, except you have two instead of one!
- The dot on the left is a lux sensor
- I tried to get temp and humidity, but they claimed it would be too difficult to achieve – I’m pushing back on that bc we are able to do it on our American switch, so idk what the issue is. Especially since there’s more real-estate on the EU version than the North American version
- The switch will be a dimmer that can be an simulated On/Off switch
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Outside of the hardware, the switch will come with the same firmware you see on our North American switch:
- RGBW Animated Notifications
- Multi-tap scene control
- All the parameters listed here: https://help.inovelli.com/en/articles/8189241-blue-series-2-1-switch-parameters#h_7037430a45
Target MSRP is $55 USD, but I’m sure there will be a deal for early backers – maybe $45. I’m still hashing this out with all the distributor. I have base costs from the manufacturer, but since we will not be opening up a business out there (rather, using a distributor) we have to build in their margins.
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Ok, I threw a lot at you guys – any questions?
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A few spontaneous comments, questions, and wishes, but first of all, let me say that it ie really exciting to see this moving forward. I am looking forward to being able to buy part of the first MOQ batch.
This said, what is the reason for the focus on a horizontal led as opposed to the vertical led used in North America? For me a vertical led, where up rather than right or left means more light, seems more intuitive. It would also seem slightly easier to press up and down on the switch if the small smart buttons were vertically arranged to the side.
As noted in an earlier post, three-way would have been nice but it is not a deal breaker for me. To give you one data point, we have 3 places (2 hallways and 1 stair, out of 27 switches in total) where we have three-way switches in a fairly standard mid income 1350 sq ft house in Sweden.
I don’t see the point of the lux sensor if there is not also a presence sensor. For me, the main appeal of a lux sensor would be to condition presence based automations to turn the light on and off on the ambient room light level. However, if the switch does not have a presence sensor built in one has to arrange a separate presence sensor anyway and these usually already come with a lux sensor, so the lux sensor on the switch become redundant. You did not mention it under highlights, but any chance of the built in mmWave precense sensor? For me that would be a game changer because it would allow us to avoid a separate presence sensor which in the case of mmWave is tricky to install in a nice way due to the need for constant power. Also, an unnecessary “dot” on the switch makes it slightly harder to convince the more style conscious members of the household to install them.
Also, in terms of sensors (lux, presence, temperature, and humidity), unless the economy of scale simply makes it cheaper to manufacture and stock only one version, it would make sense to have one version with and one version without them. I will install these in rows of all from one to four switches, and having (and paying for) four sets of sensors all placed on top of each other seems a bit redundant, especially on top of the temperature and humidity sensors I already have in each room. I would generally think of these type of sensors on a per room basis, so one switch per room with built in sensors would be enough.
Hi again, I’ve been lurking as I’ve not had anything to add since the first reply to this topic on the 9th of February.
Looks great, price point seems solid. I agree with Joakim here regarding the mmWave sensor, it is one of the top features I’ve been looking for and the lux sensor seems a bit redundant without it. Otherwise looks great and can’t wait to buy.
What are the finalized tech specifications, as in how is the dimming done since there are multiple ways depending on the lighting fixture and if a dimmable LED driver is used (pushdim)?
Looks and sounds very good to me Eric! I’m not experienced in sensors more than humidity and temperature that I use in my house and have automations of, so I can answer if it’s necessary or not. I guess that someone who just starts converting to smart home that would be a nice usp but for me I’m covered.
This is so exciting! As a consumer I’d of course see both 1 and 2 gang switches directly. But as a business owner, I also understand that argument with waiting and see the demand. Let’s go!!
For the Homey users and myself from the Netherlands, i fully agree with the 2 above.
Like arttu said its also one of the top features for us as Homey users that there is a Mmwave sensor in it.
Hope you will make one with a Mmwave sensor to. Otherwise in dont think this switch is very different to other switches exept the led and de favo little switches.
I sign everything that joakim said above.
Regarding 3-way switches. We have several houses in the family and all of them use 3-way switches in stairways, hallways and often in rooms with multiple exists. Also in bedrooms between the door and the night stands.
In our new house we will probably have 4-6 of them. So I think they are indeed pretty widespread, at least in my environment.
And I agree that having a mmWave sensor would be more valuable than temp and humidity as those could easily be measured in other places out of view. Also I’d be sceptical about the precision of the temperature measurements in a mains-powered light switch. I assume that the switches would generate at least a bit of heat?
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Adding a mmWave sensor will probably increase 
significantly the price … and to be honest, I don’t think that a mmWave sensor built into a switch will work as expected in all the different user environments. Choosing the right place to install the mmWave sensor and more importantly- aiming the sensor(antenna) to the right direction is usually critical for the performance of this type of devices.
Note the ecobee switch failures due to the switch itself heating up the sensor. They ultimately killed that functionality. I assume Inovelli has coverage for this effect.
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I agree. It would be nice to have the option in the future, but having mmWave and lux sensor in every switch seems counterproductive.
Dont have to be in every switch. Like said above, maybe one with and one without mmwave