UPDATE: Dimmer Switches Update Thread - Production Starts Oct. 4th!

It sounds like the dim level will be represented vertically in the notification bar (lights from bottom to top as brightness is increased).
But after reading a few comments, it sounds like we can’t address the individual LEDs?

In other words, with the relay disabled, will I be able to indicate the dim level for the smart bulbs it controls?

Yes, this is correct unfortunately for both comments. There wasn’t enough room on the Z-Wave chip to put in this functionality. I’ve talked it over with the team and it sounds like there is room for optimizing the code a bit further, so future updates can be sent through, but we’ll have to play it by ear when the time comes to see what we can/cannot fit on the chip.

Can more than one be installed for a 3+ way setup? My gripe with dimmers and a 3+ way setup is only being able to dim at one switch. It seems like every time you you turn on the light its not at the correct level and you have to walk over to the dimmer to change it. It kind of defeats the point of a 3 way. I don’t know if it’s even possible for two switches to communicate and only the one switch is actually dimming the load. It sure would be nice though.

@MarkH - An Aux Switch (GE or Homeseer) should be able to adjust dim level. It’s an additional expense, but the toggle will be identical feel to the Inovelli (e.g. neutral resting position). Also Aux Switches won’t require line to power the switch. Uses neutral and traveler. You just use a wire nut to tie the line (coming from Inovelli Load) and acutal load (typical 3-way installation).

That’s what I was afraid of. So when controlling smart bulbs with the relay off, there doesn’t seem to be any main feature to push the dimmer over the switch.
And I’m assuming in my case with a triple gang, the switches might be better since I have to break the cooling fins off (the one in the middle has to have them all broken off).

So when controlling smart bulbs with the relay off, there doesn’t seem to be any main feature to push the dimmer over the switch.

That’s the conclusion I came to as well. Just a larger LED bar, I guess. I made a similar comment previously, but didn’t get any feedback on it.

Well I guess another advantage would be: If you ever plan to go to “dumb” bulbs and want to dim them, you’ll have an actual dimmer installed and not just an On/Off.

Whats the delay between the hold and release events of the switch vs when the bulb starts/ends dimming? I’ve tried this with another Z-Wave dimmer and a zigbee bulb and was less than impressed with the performance…

Haven’t had time to set this up yet myself, but I don’t see why it couldn’t be nearly as responsive as the Hue app on a phone. Of course, that would depend on the performance of the hub you’re using; anything that requires a round trip to the cloud isn’t going to do well. I also imagine that latency would be the same between the red series on/off switch and the red series dimmer.

Please let me know how it goes. My hub keeps everything local. However the zigbee bulb was going through the hue hub. I believe this is where the lag in performace was coming from. I bet a Z-Wave bulb paired directly to my main hub would perform better…

There are 2 different scenarios and I believe there would be a big difference between the dimmer and the switch in both but @Eric_Inovelli correct me if I’m wrong:

  1. Using a zwave bulb: In this case, the dimmer would be much better than the switch because you can add the bulb to the dimmer’s association group so it won’t use the hub at all for dimming. The switch would communicate directly with the bulb and would be pretty much instantaneous.
  2. Using a zigbee bulb: When using the dimmer in this case, a dim command would be sent to the hub and then to the switches. If it’s all done via the cloud (like it likely would be in ST), then there’d be some delay with the dimming which would probably be annoying since dimming should typically be instant. However, I expect this to still be decently faster than using a switch that requires a hold for 3 secs and then release.
    I’ve tried the switch with a Philips hue bulb and it takes way too long to dim so not worth it for me.

I am not sure if the red series dimmer would work for dimming zigbee bulbs. Since the dimmer is likely using the hold on/off actions to dim the light it is connected to, I am not sure if is also sending scene commands.

The product page for the red dimmer only lists 11 scenes:


I imagine that would be on 1-5x, off 1-5x and config 1x.

The Red switch, on the other hand, lists 13 scene commands (15 if you also count the release event)
On 1-5x, off 1-5x, config x1, hold on, release on, hold off, release off

My theory is, if you are using a zwave bulb, the dimmer is the better option because it can be associated directly with the bulb for dimming (bypassing the controller completely). If you are using a zigbee bulb, the red switch might be the only solution that does not require a firmware update because it may be the only device to send scene commands when the buttons are held/released.

The red switch is definitely not the only option and like I said previously, is almost definitely the worse option. The way to get a zigbee bulb to dim would be using a SmartApp like “Smart Lighting” and then mirroring the switch’s dim level. People already do this with other dimmers and they go past the dimmer switch by connecting the bulb directly to the line (obviously this could lead to electrical issues e.g. not realizing the bulb is still powered after turning off the switch and getting electrocuted etc). The relay is the better option though.


The method of using the dimmer would essentially be option 8.

Now, it might also be possible to add the hub to zwave association group 4 on the dimmer (dim commands) and to have the hub then send the dim commands to the philips hue. That way, you won’t have to mirror the dim levels. Only issue I see with this method is that when the dimmer switch is at 100%, it probably won’t send dim commands any longer. Not sure though.

Good point on the Zwave direct association.
However, I’m already heavily invested in Phillips Hue bulbs.

I’m not using the Hue hub, the bulbs are paired directly to my Home Assistant (currently running on a tinker board) using a Z-Wave/Zigbee USB stick. So everything is local, and near instant.
I’m already directly controlling the bulbs with the Red series switch in one location and it works great, but I’ve got a larger area with several Inovelli Gen 1 Dimmers which also work great. The Gen 1’s however don’t report a scene when releasing the long press/brighten/dim.

So given my use case, there isn’t much of a gain unless I eventually get rid of the smart bulbs. Which is a very valid reason.

Hey, are you using the red series switch to dim the hue bulb? If you are, is this primarily done using the “release” scene? Does that imply that you tap multiple times to get it to dim?

Also, how are you using the Gen 1 dimmers to dim? Which scene is being used for that?

Thanks

@Eric_Inovelli

Are there any updates on if these are in the US or when they’ll be going out? Sorry to be the squeaky wheel but I’m struggling with the wait.

I was hoping that the Switch Multilevel V2 command class (which is supported per https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/3438/classes) would still work with the relay disabled. If not, then I think you’re right, and the on/off switch is the only one that would work for smart bulbs.

That being said, I read on another thread that the hold/release scenes weren’t originally intended, but happened to make their way into the firmware (citation: Dimmer with smart bulb). Hopefully we’ll get the same with the dimmer? I would also like confirmation that the hold/release scenes will remain in place in future firmware updates.

Anyways, until one of us actually gets a dimmer, I think we’d need @EricM_Inovelli or @Eric_Inovelli to set appropriate expectations.

I am also struggling with the wait since i do not have neutral wires on any of my switches. Other companies such as Lutron have dimmers that do not require a neutral but I really like the Inovelli and want to stick with them. Updates are appreciated.

Yeah, seems like there is a little mix up in that thread. The hold/release scenes have always been planned & included in the firmware for both the switch and the dimmer, but held vs release were not handled separately in the SmartThings device handler because of latency issues with the cloud (maybe that is where the confusion was). Trying to create a dimming automation based on when the Inovelli device sends a “held” scene report and then a “released” scene report is pretty inconsistent in cloud based setups. So the marketing material is also incorrect as both Red devices have 13 scenes available (15 if you count “released”).

Thanks @EricM_Inovelli! So sounds like we can expect the dimmer to work the same as the switch for relay disabled configurations. Is that right?

No worries, I get it.

I should have an update (a positive one) tonight. We’ve received flight numbers for some of the dimmers, but I want to make sure they’re on the dang plane before updating you all.

More to come.

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