This is so awesome. My wife will love these. She refuses to learn how many times to tap. Couple of thoughts…
I echo what Chris said. The ability for the dimmer buttons to dim the lights on the last scene selected would be slick. I had an old Monster scene controller that did this. (Hardware looked very similar). I had that working on Vera, but couldn’t get that functionality to work on Smartthings. I recognize this functionality would likely be extremely complicated to implement.
Would you be able to double tap/hold buttons to trigger other scenes like on the red series? If not, you’d have to have one whole button dedicated to turn off the lights.
I’m assuming a single tap of the dedicated dimmer buttons will turn load on/off? I recommend having a single tap on restore light levels to whatever the last level was. This is how my other dimmers work, and I have a scene run every morning at 3am that resets all my dimmers to 80%.
Button labels. What about the option to have clear buttons that you pop off to put paper labels behind them. It could come with several sheets of perferated predefined ones. But also a blank Word template to create your own. (Or a website that allows you to customize that you then print out.). The challenge with this would be for the buttons to still feel solid and not look chinsey with the clear plastic.
Thanks for taking feedback. Excited to be included in the process.
Yeah, this is definitely something we’re trying to figure out the logistics on. There are a couple of approaches:
A list of stickers/icons included in the package that you can stick on
A way to customize online after purchase (or during) using etching
We can definitely do both too. The sticker idea we need to figure out a good way to put them on the switch without them getting dirty overtime (or I suppose you could just buy a replacement sticker sheet).
Basically, what we’d have to do is find a third party manufacturer in the US and/or Canada that we’d be able to send paddles to as well as the online order and you can have them etched. I don’t think this should be too hard and I love the idea.
Touch screen would be sweet thought too lol – but I think that will have to live in your dreams for now haha!
Ahh, yeah sorry – I copy/pasted the above from the fan/light switch which doesn’t have that so that’s my fault. Although, this does bring up an idea (likely will add to the cost, but we can always ask) in that I wonder if it’s possible to switch between MLV and ELV depending on the load you have on your switch. I’ll capture that idea above and check!
Yessir! It will hook up to an existing light so you can control the load as well as have an additional 3-Buttons above it for scenes.
Ok, we can look into this for sure! Building on your example of backlit in the bathroom, we could likely make it to where that can be adjusted based on the time of day (ie: off during the day and maybe 10% during the night – but it would be user defined).
Interesting – when you say multi-load device controller, are you saying hardwired devices (ie: a switch that controls two separate loads)? If so, that makes things a little more difficult from a timeline standpoint and cost standpoint. I do agree we need a switch like this, but not sure we can add that capability from a hardware standpoint.
I understand you said, “associations”, so I just wanted to clarify.
Ok, I think I understand now – I’ll have to defer to @EricM_Inovelli on this one!
This is a great idea – we were going to make those individual buttons be able to be taken off and mixed and matched for sure – the only thing I’m not sure of is how that would work from a PCB standpoint. If the bottom two squares are dedicated to controlling the load, I’m not sure if we’d be able to make it so that you could place that up top or how to mix/match the sizes (ie: if you wanted to make two buttons into one large button. But, I will definitely pass this on as I do like the idea of being able to customize this however you want, including the design.
What we want is to be conscious of cost and plastic waste – it’s actually one of the reasons we stopped putting almond paddles and faceplates in our boxes (I know, I know… booooo). Hardly anyone used almond so we were wasting a ton of plastic.
Like adding in a motion sensor or something? That would be interesting for sure. Might be tough with the current hardware design, but we can ask! It will definitely be able to be associated to a Z-Wave sensor and/or if you have a Zigbee/WiFi one, you could setup an automation via the hub to do this.
I’m digging the LED bar lol – It would be nice to figure out a way to do this for sure!
So have an LED bar on each side? Sorry if I wasn’t clear either (again, I copy/pasted the fan/light post lol) but there would only be one dimmer at the bottom (so, left button is dim down/off, right button is dim up/on).
I definitely like how the single LED bar was mocked up – looks slick!
We may be able to save some costs on the switch if we have pre-made buttons here at HQ that you can add to cart – I do like the etching idea by sending it to a third party as well, so we’ll have to see (maybe we can do both).
Heck yeah – we’ll see if we can add more than the default 5 we have on our current switches!
Yeah definitely – I think this is what we’re leaning towards. It saves on cost by providing blanks in the box (cuts down adding all the plastic) and if you want to customize it, you can either send it in or purchase separate buttons that are available on the site. Love it.
Welcome!! Glad to have you
Can you share the Monster controller link if it’s still around? We’d love to check it out!
Yes, definitely and to take it a step further, the LED bars (as the design stands) could also be programed to confirm that scene is on by blinking a certain color (or stay on if you’d like to indicate that scene is on).
Yeah – tap on the right button it will turn the dimmer on, hold it and it will dim up. Tap on the left button and it will turn the dimmer off and holding it will dim down. The default would be a single tap up would bring the light to the last state (I believe that’s how our dimmers currently work too, so that should be easy to adopt). Taking this a step further, we would put scene control on the bottom buttons so that you could even say, “double tap” brings it to 25%, triple = 50, etc (user defined).
Yeah this could be a route we go too. I do agree with your challenge though – however, it would cut down on having to create multiple colors as people could just buy different colored papers! Maybe that would be a separate offering where we sold clear paddles, but the default would still be the white to make sure we’re matching our current switches (well, I should say our Fan/Light switch bc that has the correct white).
Yeah definitely, this is my favorite part of starting these projects – we’re good, but we can’t think of everything, so it’s awesome getting everyone involved along the way! Thanks for your feedback and hopefully we can keep this convo going!
The modular/replaceable parts is a popular idea and I love it too, but that’s probably mutually exclusive with back lighting just the icons so here’s a couple possible ideas.
Adding a horizontal LED bar under the dimmer buttons that stretches across both buttons might give you the extra space you need. It would really be the same as the vertical LED bar on the dimmer switch just flipped 90 degrees. The other buttons may need to shrink to make room. Also, I’m not a designer, so this idea could look weird with the vertical bars.
Make the dimmer buttons translucent so a background light will make them visible in the dark. Any text/icon printed on them will probably show up against the light.
To visually indicate the dim level, the brightness of the back lighting could be adjusted in relationship so as you increase the dim level the brightness of the buttons increases and vice versa for dimming (down to some minimum value).
Another option would be to transition the color of the background lighting from one color to another. It’s not an accurate way to visually gauge the dim level, and I can’t tell if it would be any better than a 1-2 LED bar.
Edit: I actually like the idea above of re-using the red dimmer with buttons at the bottom for the switch toggles, then just adding the 3 scenes above with some form of feedback on sending the scene control.
Sorry if this has been discussed before- but for years I’ve wished there could be a switch with a built in motion sensor. Was going to comment on the thread about whether you would continue to manufacture the stand alone units. I assume there are some space requirements that might be an issue, but this is something that is completely lacking in the market. A “smart” house still requires too much interaction in my mind, unless I’m ok leaving lights constantly on. There will always be some situations where interaction occurs, but every time I have to touch a switch, or tell alexa to do something I feel like there is opportunity for improvement. I think motion sensors built into switches would automate a majority of my current interactions.
Welcome to the community @FloridaDog. A motion sensor would be awesome. There has been discussion about a switch & motion sensor, but I don’t think there has been a project opened for it yet.
Actually, that is a great idea… but would increase the price significantly. I have been looking to integrate oled momentary switches into some woodworking projects (for the fun of it because I am a geek). they have some very high res screens the size of dice, and a few mm thick… would not be too hard to integrate them into the paddles, but it would look a little off (unless you use black paddles, there would be a dark square block in the middle of the paddle)
True, but I was being basic. In reality, there is already feedback with all the paddle switches, the (compared to some other switches) very solid click feedback.
I’m not a fan of the idea of using paper labels or stickers… even if you place it under a clear plastic tab of sorts… it just looks cheap… and cheesy…
That said… maybe creating standard set of buttons with etched icons that can be swapped in or out would work, maybe some blanks for people like me… who may or may not have a CNC router in his garage… and soon… a CO2 laser (if I can convince my wife).
Her biggest complaint, like someone else mentioned, is having to remember scene tap sequences. She likes to point to my brother in laws house, which has a ton of those 5 and 6 button Lutron Casata switches… Good thing I do the wiring… she does not have much choic
e
Another idea I had today … if you put buttons inset on the inside, or even had a rotary button that transfers force from horizontal motion to vertical motion, you could have a faux rotary controller. This would be awesome for media control on a wall!
First of all, this is amazing. Exactly what I’d want in a couple locations in the house.
For feedback, I’d like to echo everything Chris said about Operation modes. That would be amazing. Something to think about for the future: for his mode 2, I’d almost want to see that in a separate, larger product. I’m envisioning a double wide decora panel as a sort of central control switch. It has 6 or 9 buttons, and works like Chris described. That functionality in a three button switch might be a little less intuitive when switching between triple and quadruple clicks to select a particular device you want to then control with the dimmer controls below. Still, a great option for power users, which I think is 90% of the forum.
Form factor: I think an LED bar that matches the existing Reds would be first choice like Chris said. A switch that blends in with existing switches would look the least jarring (which is super important), though you might lose a little functionality with the smaller LEDs to represent the scenes. I think it’s probably fine though.
Alternatively, I think kreene1987’s middle example is also great. It gives an led for the dimmer like existing switches (which can hopefully be lit up partially in the same way), while having configurable simple on off LEDs for the scene switches. Sharp, functional, though it doesn’t match existing switches, which might look a little jarring to people (and SOs) who want things to look tidy.
One thing I’d highlight though is the bottom buttons being two different buttons. If they’re instead designed as a small sideways rocker, it’s more intuitive that they are an on off switch/dimmer, rather than unrelated buttons. This matters with houseguests and less technically savvy family members. I think a modular button approach like has been mentioned could allow for two buttons rather than a rocker, but that should likely be aftermarket like the custom buttons (which are a great idea, btw).
All in all, this is an amazing product idea, especially with the ability to customize the buttons display. If you can figure out a way to make that not after market and still not look chintzy, I’d be one happy camper. Also, I imagine these won’t be as ubiquitous in the home as regular switches and dimmers, so a slightly more premium price would probably make sense, rather than losing functionality.
Along the lines of increased functionality motion is a good idea. I almost ordered the GE motion sensing zwave switches. However, given how cheap existing motion sensors are, and the fact that these switches likely won’t be put throughout the home, but only in certain locations, I’m not sure the added expense of a motion detector is worth it.
…though I’d still probably buy it. Looking forward to whatever you guys come up with!
An addendum: those aftermarket buttons with common etchings would be really great low level purchases with points in the new rewards program you guys are planning.
I have been waiting for a good scene selection switch that my wife will use(she can never remember how many clicks up or down for some things. I’m limited to two clicks up and two down on a switch to program for her, the rest of the click combinations are for me).
I look forward to buying these next year!
Things to agree on that I like above:
Associations!
Ability to turn-off all the lights on the switch/ change the settings on them (same as current switches)
customizable buttons (even for the dimmer buttons)
I just got a bunch of the Red Dimmer Switches and your fan controller and trying to find the time to install them.
Awesome work!!! I love the outreach!
Love the idea. There aren’t many/any good Z-Wave keypads on the market. A couple comments:
Make sure to analyze the form and capabilities of Lutron seeTouch keypads. These are the gold standard comparison. They’re way overpriced but they end up being worth it IMO. And note they include 1 round of engraving in the cost of the device.
What functional capabilities does the 700 series chipset give you compared to the 500? Paired with a 700 series hub. So far I’ve seen no real functionality improvements in 700 series devices. I know there aren’t many available now. Silicon Labs has pushed the more capability line, maybe an opportunity for you to be a first mover.
These look cool! I assume manual control will be like your other dimmers where holding the switch will increase/decrease brightness?
I’d also like to see a mock-up of @drphungky idea with making the bottom buttons look like a rocker. Anything that makes it easier to use for non-techy people is a win in my book (even though we all know smart rockers are just two buttons behind the rocker ).
Just looked at the sticker on the back, and it actually is a rebranded Leviton IWC600. It was designed to have a load directly connected to it, but I did not have a load connected to it, I just used it as a scene controller. There was a setting to disable the load which freed up all four buttons to be used as scene controllers. Manual here: INSTALLATION & USER GUIDE - PDF Free Download
Looks like you can still nab one off ebay: https://www.ebay.com/c/1200008019 Or I can send you mine for free if you wanted to play around with it. I replaced it with a Inovelli Red Series last year.
Well, @anon14959390 will have job security for a long time with these suggestions lol. This forum is awesome!
A couple design thoughts:
The Caesta is an amazing switch, and its design is definitely sexy and simple, yet the biggest non-nerds complaint is that the buttons are small and you often hit the wrong ones easily. As much as I love the idea of an 8 button scene controller, it might only appeal to seasoned smarthomers who actually have 8 scenes to run!
I imagine most smarthome newbies will have only 3 scenes for the most part: Home, Away and Sleep. So having the top 3 buttons as large as they are makes sense to me, and the bottom 2 smaller would work to make control of individual lights distinctive.
I think these modular ideas are amazing! It would be awesome to have that! But I also think those ideas might be better for 2nd gen of this switch. There is a lot of programming and tech going into a small space, so I would suggest making a great product that might not be as complicated, and add more functions to gen 2 once the backbone is solid.
I think another thing that is really showing up in this chat, but should be pointed out again is your guys branding. Your LED strip is definitely a huge part of what makes you recognizable! So moving forward with switches this might be a good time to maybe pick 1 or 2 other recognizable characteristics, like a distinctive light bulb shape etching on the buttons, a unique haptic feel, or a unique “click” sound to stand out even more, or that catches attention of a stranger using it.
I think swappable switches is awesome, but maybe just get a small set of varieties, It also appeals to newbies. Also outsourcing the to a 3rd party might be a great way to cross promote, especially if you get one who works with contractors or wholesalers.
Love this. Maybe horizontal bottom led?
Ecobee Switch+ is nice, it not only motion detects but it also has a built in night light. Having a switch that auto turns on is awesome.
Maybe an option could be giving out designs to 3D print buttons?
New member here, very interested in this project. Lots of good ideas on this thread, I have a couple of thoughts:
Load vs. no-load setup
Would it be possible to install and configure this without a local load, as a pure scene controller? The dimmer buttons could dim the active scene(s).
The use case for this is, my house has a bunch of old PCS UPB 6-button controllers. I really appreciated their convenience but some of them have stopped working and something like this would be great for a retrofit.
Scene vs zone control
I know this is planned to be a scene controller but I think adding zone capability - allowing more than one scene to be active at the same time - would dramatically increase your applicable use cases. I know this would require some thinking around what happens when a device is part of multiple scenes but I think that can be worked around with a config flag.
).
