Thank you so much for working so long and hard to get these out. But, I’m a total noob, and while I understand not to put them on fans and lights with a ballast, how can I tell if the bulbs I want to use them with are leading or trailing edge, and I’m not sure what transformers are (like from a train set?) or inductive loads are. So, when you get a chance, please explain that in a bit simpler terms.
Great question - I’d say IMO (I’m sure there will be others that disagree and that’s ok) this one really doesn’t matter. I’ve never known what type my LED’s are and most of the time I never notice an issue with dimming performance. It wasn’t until this community got into the weeds about Leading and Trailing that I started to notice the imperfections of my LED’s. Again, not really that annoying to me, but I definitely understand the need for perfection and having the correct match to your bulbs.
So my advice here would be to start out with the default (which is Trailing) and if you notice choppy dimming or flickering, switch it over to Leading edge and see if that makes a difference.
But my understanding is that Trailing is more compatible with the current bulbs in market.
Like Megatron and Optimus Prime… Kidding
This is a decent article that explains the various types of transformers. I found it pretty helpful in understanding. It also talks about Leading/Trailing Edge too.
Here’s an article that talks about inductive loads. Examples from the article: Electric motor, Fans, Induction heater, washing machine and any other electrical load that has coils and motor inside it.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for update - I already saw confirmation that my first order with 2 dimmers has been shipped (not sure about other 10 dimmers)
In any event, I already know that trailing edge is not playing well with my lights with Blue 2.18 firmware (works good with 3way dumb mode, but clicks and is not working with aux switch). So, here are my questions:
- How I can change form TE to LE?
- Can you explain, please, how LE will void the warranty? Is it not a part of the settings
- Do you have instructions for 3way (4way) Z-wave association procedure?
Thanks. That was very helpful, especially for “inductive”, which I now understand is a load running an electric motor, like a fan.
For transformers, the explanation was that is was a dimmer itself, as I understand it. (So my remembrance of controlling my trains/slot cars with a transformer may have been pretty much right). So while the Inovelli switches are dimmers, they shouldn’t be used on transformers (i.e. other dimmers). Is that correct?
I’m pretty sure he meant if you used it to control the non-supported loads it would void your warranty, but that if you are going to do so, you need to switch to leading edge.
There will be a parameter on the switch that you can switch. On the current firmware, here’s the default settings:
Single Pole + Neutral Wire = Trailing Edge
Single pole + No Neutral Wire = Leading Edge*
3-Way + Neutral Wire Using Dumb Switches = Leading Edge*
3-Way + Neutral Wire Using Aux Switches = Trailing Edge
3-Way + No Neutral Wire Using Aux Switches = Leading Edge*
(3-Way w/No Neutral using dumb switches are not supported)
*These cannot be changed from Leading Edge to Trailing Edge
Exactly what @StevenZwave said – I meant using them on non-supported loads would void your warranty. You’re more than welcome to switch between Leading/Trailing for supported loads.
Not yet, I’m trying to get them up before you guys get them though. What platform are you using? I can try to get it finished for you.
You’re welcome, lots to learn! Me included
Yeah, but there’s been some back and forth around vernacular of these switches (the use of the word 2-1 and on/off). They’re called a 2-1 because they can be used as an on/off switch or a dimmer switch if used on lighting loads. They cannot be used as an On/Off on non-lighting loads. I made sure this time to clarify everywhere that they cannot be used on anything other than lighting as last time it wasn’t as clear and caused some issues.
But yes, you are correct in your assessment!
Thanks for your prompt responce
I am using HA with Zigbee2MQTT.
For me 3way association was a must feature why I picked Inovelli as I do not have travelers (I used Insteon before). Please help with 3 ways
Again, sorry for my ignorance, and I appreciate how much everyone there is trying to push the new Z-Wave 2:1s out the door, but if I’m understanding this correctly, this may be some really good news to help get optimal dimming without buzzing from all kinds of bulbs. In my total noob view, as I understand it, some bulbs, particularly some (most?) LEDs respond better to trailing edge to avoid the power rush and smoother dimming, but lots (all?) incandescent bulbs respond better to leading edge. (BTW, I’m not sure if I should say “respond to” vs “are” - that’s how ignorant I am - so please excuse/correct that).
If that is so, then as long as I don’t mix bulb types being controlled by a switch, I can flip the parameter between leading and trailing edge and see which one works better with any given bulb. Is that correct? (Also, BTW, I know we can use different bulbs controlled by a switch, so that wouldn’t prevent me from changing the parameter, but what I’m talking about is “best practices” of using the same band/model bulb to be controlled by a switch.)
I’ve also noticed a lot of LEDs cannot be dimmed anywhere as low as incandescents can (I often cannot set the favorite button to less than 30-35% for LEDs or else the bulbs won’t turn on). Will this help with that too, or is that another issue? (I remember seeing a thread about perhaps having an initial value to get the light to turn on and then a 2nd value to where we want it to end up, as once on, they often can be dimmed lower - but that might have been on the Hubitat forum).
Excited to hear from 1st users how well this all works out. Seems like the best switches are going to get significantly better.
What are you using for Z-Wave? This is the Z-Wave thread.
We will have this up before you get your switches. It’s what all three of us are working on today (Alex, Eric M., and myself) which is tying up the loose ends. Nothing like waiting until the last minute!
100% correct, see you got this!
Correct, it would be best practice to use the same bulbs across the switch.
Yes, this should help this situation.
The rule of thumb though, at least in my opinion, is spend the extra money on some quality bulbs. Philips, GE, etc. A lot of times, we’ll see issues with the random Chinese company bulbs that are selling for $0.02 per LED bulb (I’m exaggerating, but you get the point… cheap bulbs) and it just simply is made with crappy components, so regardless what smart switch you put on it, there will be problems. They will work fine with dumb switches, but since you’re dealing with electronics of a smart switch, it doesn’t play as nice.
I didn’t see the one combo I have, which is a 3 way with with neutrals and 2 red dimmers.
I’m not worried about as I don’t have travelers (I removed the travelers) and use associations in Hubitat. They’ve been working fine for years, with the one exception is that the non-mains one doesn’t really dim smoothly. But I hardly ever dim them as I’ve used Hubitat to set the favorite button to the low level I want.
I received my switches today and just installed one, so far so good. Now to get some favorites setup.
I’m also looking forward to getting instructions for 3way (4way) Z-wave association procedure. I’m running HomeSeer.
The TL;DR for 3/4 way with these is that you need to associate groups 2,3,4 from any secondary switch to the primary switch (the load switch). And then you need to associate groups 2,3,4 from the primary switch to any secondary switch. On all of the secondary switches you need to set param 59 to 1. On the primary switch, you need to set param 59 to 3. You will then control the primary switch from your hub in all of your automations and the secondary switches will stay in sync.
@Eric_Inovelli will have better instructions but that’s the quick summary from my setup.
Sharing this for anyone using Home Assistant, I’ve put together a blueprint that makes it easy to configure multi tap actions for all of the buttons on this switch. It supports multiple different switches (all performing the same action).
Source code is here if anyone wants to take a look. Please feel free to contribute on GitHub with improvements.
Hubitat doesn’t list a param numbered 59. What is the text/label for param 59?
What I do have is param 12 (Association Behavior When should the switch send commands to associated devices?) set to 15 on the on primary (load) switch which is All and param 12 is set to 11, (timer, 3 way and local) on the second switch.
I don’t use Hubitat, so I’m not sure how it’s broken out, but here’s the reference from Z-Wave JS.
In Z-Wave JS, param 59 is broken out into two different controls:
- Send Local Commands To Associated Devices
- Forward Z-Wave Commands to Associated Devices
On the primary (load switch) you want both of those enabled. That’s the equivalent of a 3. On the secondaries, you want the first one enabled and the second one disabled. That’s the equivalent of a 1.
Hubitat does list param 59 for the VZW31 (Zwave 800 series)
If you’re running the LZW31 (Zwave 500 series) then its param 12
Sorry…I have Blue 2-in-1 with Zigbee2MQTT as well.
Of course, that was a mistake. I am using Z-wave JS for Red 2-in-1 (to be exact - will use when I’ll get dimmers , most likely tomorrow)
Ok, cool, I think @Alex_Inovelli is knocking out the Z-Wave JS instructions. I’ll make sure the associations instructions are ready tomorrow
Are you good with the Zigbee Binding for 3-Ways or do you need instructions there? I’m trying to get things organized and I can’t remember if I created those. I think I did, but everything is a blur lol
Zigbee binding works like a charm. Super easy