Z-Wave 800 Series 2-1 Switch (On/Off & Dimmer) | Project Phoenix

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#404

i have a quick question: is there going to be any stock left on these once they actually come in?

to be quite honest, i haven’t pre-ordered because of how long it takes you all to get things into stock from pre-order, and i can’t have my money tied up for weeks or months waiting for the pre-order to come in. i’m interested in probably 15-20 of these, but only if i can buy them and have them a few days later…is that point ever going to be here, or should i just sacrifice the features and look elsewhere?

edit: and i guess i should ask since i just noticed the note on the main page…when you say this doesn’t work with ballasts, what exactly does that entail? all of our LED lighting has ballasts in the ceiling, since CA code required it when the house was built. we have LED bulbs in most of them (the 4 pin ones that don’t require a ballast bypass, they’re just plug and go), and i’ve got existing zooz switches on those circuits right now and they work fine…am i to understand that these switches may not work for me even though the zooz work fine? we also have some ultrapro switches that control our christmas lights, which is an outlet under the eaves that is wired to the front door…would this not work there either?

if that’s the case, it’d make my decision a lot easier and would (unfortunately) cause me to just forget about inovelli altogether right now. i can’t spend $1000 on 20 of these switches and then also have to spend money to retrofit and rip out the ballasts on top of that when i can just spend $35 per switch on a zooz switch that just works as is right now without having to take the ballasts out. it sucks because i’d really rather the extra features these have, but the math of it just doesn’t work if there’s additional cost on top of already spending more per switch on these vs zooz.

#405

Are you reselling these? Otherwise doesn’t your money get permanently tied up with all physical things you buy no matter what it is?

I’m with you on preordering in general though. I don’t preorder things, especially things in development that might not work as promised.

#406

do they not charge your card immediately? i thought i had seen that somewhere…if it’s not charged until shipment, then that would alleviate that concern obviously. i just thought i had read that the card was charged up front on pre-order, my bad if that’s incorrect.

that doesn’t answer my second question / potential issue, though…

#407

Not sure which model of Zooz you have but most (if not all) dimmers have the same restriction. It’s not just an Inovelli limitation

This is from Zooz website

do not install this unit to control a receptacle; a motor-operated appliance; a fluorescent lighting fixture; or a transformer-supplied fixture.

#408

I believe with the Shopify or whatever system is now used, it does charge you upon ordering.

#409

hence me not wanting to have my money tied up for an infinite amount of time until i actually receive the switches.

#410

dimmers perhaps, but on/off works fine. i’ve got a ZEN71 and ZEN76, and they both work fine (non-dimmers).

the inovelli switches literature seems to indicate that even on/off doesn’t work with ballasts.

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#411

I guess my take is if you need the money then just request a refund. :man_shrugging:t2:

#412

Perhaps you missed the pedantic joke I was trying to make earlier, in that no matter what you buy, your money is permanently tied up in that purchase. Even if you get the item immediately your money is still tied up in the purchase, unless of course you resell it.

#413

my take is that i shouldn’t have to give them an interest free loan for potentially months, and for an indeterminate amount of time given how long it has taken them to fill orders in the past…but sure.

#414

Well if that isn’t the epitome of the US tax and social security system.

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#415

Yeah, it cracks me up when people brag about getting a tax refund. Umm sorry to inform them that means they let the government borrow THEIR money interest free. Its better to end up having a small tax due on tax day

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#416

so because a lot of people are unable to set up their paycheck to accurately reflect their taxes due at the end of the year, that means i should be cool with giving inovelli my money for months ahead of receiving the products I’m actually paying for?

I fail to see how this is at all related to my point.

#417

Yes, at this stage we will have stock available. Our predictions based on run-rates is about 3 months worth, which is more than the current lead times which are 60 days.

Can you shoot me the make/model if you can? I can look into them.

I’m not sure what model you have, but they are also stating that you shouldn’t use your switch with ballasts (tube lights):

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That is correct, these are not meant for outlets, similar to Zooz. Not sure what Jasco’s rating is.

Totally understandable. Zooz is a great brand and I think you’ll be happy with them if you decide to go that route.

Definitely check with them regarding this. While it may work, if something goes sideways, I’m not sure insurance will cover it due to the disclaimer.

Ours also will work unofficially with ballasts if you’re in single-pole mode and have a neutral wire. We just can’t officially endorse it.

I see where you’re coming from and understand the point of view. On the flip-side, this is why we offer a discounted rate for pre-orders (not backorders – those are first come first serve, and I understand the frustration, but we’re also playing catch up from the pandemic). The discounted rate hopefully offsets some of the risk you’re taking not putting it in the market or whatever you’re doing that you need liquid cash.

I hear you man – I’m not mad at you, I promise. I know you’re responding to others, but just wanted to let you know.

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#418

thank you for the detailed reply. to be honest I wouldn’t have an issue doing a pre-order if there weren’t so many issues in the past hitting delivery targets and keeping stock of things. if I knew for sure i would have these on a certain date, that’d be one thing…but the product page still says mid-late April and we’ve already established here that it’s now at least late may or early June. that reminds me too much of how things have always worked here vis a vis delivery dates.

as for you not being mad at me, I appreciate that…but I wasn’t expecting the fan boys to chime in with ridiculous unrelated nonsense as far as my valid concerns about when we’d actually receive pre- orders. comparing my concern to those who can’t accurately fill out a w4 form is more than a little ridiculous.

I’ll send you model numbers of the ballasts we have when I get home. we are away for a bit right now.

#419

Just wanted to mention that I had 2 closets with ballasts in them. Because I was a fraidy cat I hired an electrician to do them and then bought LED replacements. (It’s been a couple of years, but hopefully either here, or I think it may be over on the Hubitat forum, I posted the brand name I got). They only charged me $20 per light to re-wire them. Sure, that can add up, if you don’t want to do them yourself, but at the same time, if you have them do 1 or 2 you’ll see how easy it actually was. I went that way as I also wanted the Inovelli features. As these are my closet and my wife’s closet, which we typically go into late at night or the early morning, we love the “favorites” button that I programmed with Hubitat to turn on to their lowest level. We love that and are glad we went that way,

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#420

Umm, if you read it again, what I said AGREES your point stated here:

people who get tax refunds are giving the government an interest free loan for potentially months…same point you are making, so yeah, its comparable :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But back to the main issue of what works and what doesn’t versus what is officially supported and what is not. The important thing for you to get from this thread is that zooZ has the same limitations. Maybe it works for you but it is not officially supported by zooZ in the same way its not officially supported by Inovelli. You are running the same risks using the zooZ as the Inovelli in this arrangement.

That said, there is no denying the supply chain issue that Inovelli has been working hard to overcome. This is one area where [currently] zooZ has the upper hand. If you need it now then zooZ is a good option. :slightly_smiling_face:

While you can buy zooZ devices today, they don’t measure up to the advanced features and functions of the Inovelli’s which for many of us is worth the wait. If you’re willing to wait for the Inovelli’s, there is no requirement to pay in advance. Like Eric stated, if you do pre-pay you get a discount and you get the first shipments. If you don’t want to pre-pay that’s fine, without the discount and your product ships after the pre-orders all go out. The choice is all yours :smiley:

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#421

you weren’t even the first one to make that comparison, but thanks for chiming in.

#422

Yeah I get it. I don’t know why were even talking about this in this thread if I’m being honest. This is a thread about the project, not whether or not we can get ahead in life by investing in the stock market vs giving a company an interest free loan and continuously ripping on them for not being in stock or failing to meet deadlines, etc.

While I appreciate the feedback, the fact of the matter is you have the right to put your money where you want, I personally do not care. We will be fine either way.

No one is forcing you to put money down for pre-orders, at the end of the day it’s either you are excited about the features/benefits and are willing to take the risk of pre-ordering at a discount or waiting until the product is here.

Yes, we’ve established our track record of staying in stock is terrible. I’m well aware of this issue and am trying my best to overcome this. If it’s not good enough, I understand the ramifications of losing customers to competitors. It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is and that’s what free enterprise is all about.

I’m happy to help in any way I can regarding answering questions surrounding this project, but I think we’ve established our inability to meet deadlines is unacceptable to you (that’s fine, I get it), you’re not going to trade an interest free loan for a discount on a product (also ok) and if your demands aren’t meant, you’ll shop elsewhere (also your right, completely understand).

At the end of the day, here’s where we’re at:

  • Pre-Order Pricing will end as soon as product ships from China to the US (should be any day) - prices will go up
  • Product should be readily available starting end of May and we should have enough in stock to not run out

Keep me posted on your specific situation and I can help as best as I can.

I understand your frustration and hopefully we all can put our swords away and talk about the project as it stands as the goal of this thread is to make this product the best in the industry, not talk about W4’s, who’s bank account is bigger than who’s, etc.

I hear and acknowledge your concerns. They are valid and I’m telling you that I’m trying my best to address them - it’s been an extremely hard few years for us.

Thank you - take your time.

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#423

greatly appreciate your candor here. i will PM you directly to discuss further once i can get you the ballast model numbers.

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