Zigbee 2-1 Switch (On/Off & Dimmer) | Project New Horizon (Blue Series)

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#544

Inovelli’s red fan controller that has been out of stock forever makes a nice replacement for remote controlled fans.

You can also get small dimmer modules that can be shoved into the junction box and controlled via z wave to dim your fan.

#545

I did install the 1 fan controller I had bought a while back for the one potential fan that will stay. The remote ones are extra obnoxious because they are installed in the basement. So I’m going to replace them sooner rather than later. They would have been later if it wasn’t so nonsensical.

#546

Will the Aux switches be sold as a 10 pack as well?

Integrating Zigbee Canless Lights For Entire Home - Juno Connect
#547

I hadn’t planned on it simply bc I figured the demand wasn’t there (I don’t know too many houses with 10x 3-Ways, or even a mix between 3/4-Ways), but I guess it would be helpful for B2B purchases.

Would you like us to sell it in 10pks?

#548

In my house, almost every light is a 3-way or 4-way and a couple 5-ways

I would :slight_smile:

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#549

Project Update: A little set-back and this is why I always get nervous opening up pre-orders. However, I’m thankful this happened prior to opening them up vs after.

UL came back with some comments that we had to think through, but ultimately made a decision which I’ll outline below.

We’re getting dinged for claiming our switches work with exhaust and ceiling fans (we’ve tested them and they do, but officially we won’t be able to say it and recommend it) as the fan listing requires a separate UL filing (read: more money).

Here were our options:

  • Continue down the path of UL certification 1472, which covers, “Solid-State Dimming Controls” and remove any marketing, stamping, etc of a fan rating.
  • Submit an additional UL certification using 1917, which covers, “Solid-State Fan Speed Controls” and claim the ability to turn on/off fans (w/no speed control - makes no sense, I know).
  • Go down a path Brilliant went down (as we cited them as an example of someone who has a switch that is UL rated for on/off, dim and fans) and use UL Certification 60730, which covers, “Building Automation Controls & Systems”

The third option intrigued me, but there were trade-offs such as we weren’t able to call our product a dimmer switch, but rather what we could say is that it is a controller that can control dimmable bulbs. This sounds good until you think of it from a marketing perspective where people are searching keywords such as, “Smart Dimmer Switch” or “Dimmable Smart Switch”, etc. If we can’t officially call it a Dimmer Switch, then that’s a huge setback.

The other thing is that we’d have to pay to cancel 1472 and then re-submit under 60730, which would delay us even further.

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Ultimately we are going to continue down the path of 1472, and launch it with that rating, but once they are in market, we will start the certification for 1917 so we can have two UL ratings on them. Technically the first batch of switches won’t have the rating, so that stinks, but I figured rather than waiting an additional 6wks or so + spend another $25-30k for a niche case, it’d be fine launch as is.

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So what’s the bad news?

The bad news is now they’re targeting mid-June to finish UL, which puts us at an early July release… Ughhh…

I guess on the bright-side we have more time to perfect our instructions and knowledge-base :unamused:

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Blue Series 2-1 Switch - Enhancements/Bugs Thread
#550

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#551

I need a minimum of 20, and the wait is killing me!

#552

I second epow’s and mamber’s comments. How much would I have to pay to move these switches to the front of the UL certification queue? :joy:

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#553

@Eric_Inovelli So the main reason for not pursuing 1917 now is the time delay? Sounds like if you guys are going to spend the money anyways after batch 1 then that part is moot? Yet the batch 1 switches could still unofficially control a fan with on/off only?

Personally I’d love to see a plain on-off fan rated switch (that also dims lights) in the first batch. Perhaps mine is an esoteric use case, but I usually keep my fans at the same speed and don’t care as much about speed control via the switch (would be nice but isn’t a must-have). Mainly I’d love to be able to get in bed and shut off all the household lights and make sure my fan is running with a single command.

#554

You and me both lol – the shelves at Inovelli are filled with bulbs and bulbs only – I’m eating Ramen and Potatoes for dinner, standing on the street corner begging for change over here to keep things afloat!

Maybe $50k? I’ll throw in a free Inovelli polo!

Main reason is time + money. I know it’s embarrassing to say, but after seeing the Insteon announcement, I know we’re not alone in the struggling, so I’ll just put it out there.

This has been a very difficult couple years with supply chain, with late 2021 and early 2022 being extremely crushing. We still don’t have any leads from our Z-Wave manufacturer on when they can expect to get us enough chips. We managed to get some for our B2B customer, but none for ourselves. We’ve been sold out on Z-Wave switches for 6+ months, which means no income.

We’ve had to cut the team down to 4 of us, most of us working 60-80+ hours just to keep this ship afloat with the hope that ZigBee comes through. Every month that goes by with no switches means we keep cutting into our cash reserves, which luckily we’ve managed to keep along with some of our larger B2B clients PO’s.

But our bread and butter – you guys – we have nothing to provide other than bulbs, which no one really buys.

So, when the choice came up to pay an additional $25-30k and delay the project an additional 6-8wks, we made the decision not to pursue it right now as ultimately that’s like $80-100k worth of expenses (overhead + UL costs) and a potential miss of maybe $400-500k of revenue (I know pre-orders are open, but most people are more confident when there’s actual product in stock). Meanwhile, UL has been backed up and while they tell us an additional 6-8 weeks, I don’t trust them bc they’re shutting down entire cities in China (where UL is testing).

We expect the first batch to sell out in a few months and depending on how pre-orders go, we can get the second order before the first one runs out. I’m hoping that if we have a strong pre-order, we can use those profits to pay for the second UL listing and get that off the ground. Who knows, if you guys rally, and UL somehow pulls off the 6-8 week window, it may hit the first batch, but I didn’t want to promise it.

Hope that gives more context?

Trust me when I say from a marketing perspective (my background) it sucks to have to remove a feature and as someone who has a smart switch on an exhaust fan, I’d be semi-upset I couldn’t use it and would have to wait for a dedicated one, so I get it.

Yes, I’ve been using the 2-1 on my ceiling fan for a while now (just replaced it with the fan switch unit).

That’s the kicker – I’m kind of pissed about this bc they keep saying it’s a dimmer switch that can, “act” like an on/off switch, but the fact is we built in a hard, “on/off” that physically cuts the relay. On top of that, they’re making us get a fan speed UL rating? We aren’t even using it for fan speed.

I’ve explained this so many times, but I just don’t think they get it and/or have any prior examples of a switch like this, so they’re just trying to play it safe. I’m not sure.

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#555

Actually, there are other items in stock. I just ordered $11.00 of red and gray ones (color switch paddles), because a diet of ramen and potatoes is too high in carbs to eat every day…

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#556

“…(I know pre-orders are open…”

Typo or did I miss this on the product page for the blue series?

Don’t need a 10pk but will pre-order to support you guys.
GL and thanks!

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#557

Just a poor choice of English on my part lol – I meant it as, “I know pre-orders are open during this time…” (the 6-8 weeks UL would be doing the additional certification).

My bad :slight_smile:

I should have the page opened tomorrow or at the very latest over the weekend. I’m just trying to finish the Zigbee2mqtt and Hubitat instructions today and tomorrow so that everyone can feel confident in seeing the switches working on their platform of choice. I’ll probably get to the Alexa instructions after pre-orders are open as that’s the easiest one to do.

Thanks for the support, it really means a lot!

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#558

@Eric_Inovelli makes perfect sense thanks for the thorough explanation!

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#559

How much for a ETL certification? Seems like you can get one for about $19.99 (Zooz pricing anyways).

#560

Apparently I stumbled onto this site on the perfect day! I spent all of yesterday reading through this thread and got the pleasant surprise at the end that I hadn’t missed the preorder! I getting a new place in July and I’m excited to get to use these Blue series switches to smartify my lights!

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#561

Alright all – finalizing everything today (hopefully). Would anyone mind skimming through the various pages to let me know if I missed anything and/or if there are any outstanding questions or things I can clarify?

Here are the outstanding items (if I’m missing anything, let me know):

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Aux Switch

  • 10pk Aux Switch Page = I don’t have pricing, so I can’t put that one up yet. I’m hoping to get final pricing over the weekend, if not early next week
  • Single Pack Page = I need to build it out more and my focus has been on the 2-1, so I need to give it a little more love, but it’s pretty straightforward.

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2-1 Switch (Single Pack & 10pk)
Thes pages should be good – I think I have all the disclaimers up and accounted for (they are at the bottom)

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Random

  • Color paddles are not going to be ready in time. We are having a hard time matching Lutron colors - @Darwyn_Inovelli is working on it.

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Product Pages:

Setup Pages:

A caveat on the setup pages. You may see some notes to myself to go back and fix (ie: Replace URL or Replace Pictures, etc).

The feedback I’m looking for is: Do these make sense and can things be clarified better? I realize it’s difficult w/out having the product in hand, but from a first impression, I’m curious what you think.

#562

I was looking at the setup instructions and I have 3 suggestions:

  1. Since device handlers seems the way to go for most users at this time I would suggest you change the language to something like “device handlers will work for most users” and for the edge drivers something like “if you’re feeling brave”; IMHO by calling them old and new you are implying that edge are better, but later you explain they aren’t complete
  2. When looking at the instructions to install the device handler I don’t see or can’t recognize the blue series
  3. You might want to explain why someone would want to use the default pairing vs the manual pairing holding down the three buttons

Bonus: when using dark theme some of the diagrams are hard to read because you have black text over a very dark background

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#563

Is using an aux switch preferred over two (or more) smart switches in a multi-way setting? The wording of the notes section under Multi-Way (Smart) - Neutral Wire scares me a bit (“You will have to rewire your setup to a non-traditional way of wiring (we’re going to put 120V to each switch) so that the switch will work.”

Not sure of a better wording and maybe this is more just for my planning purposes than something that would be helpful to others, but there’s a part of me that just wants to buy a bunch of contractor packs of 2-1 switches and make everything the same. But the idea of changing wiring to a “non-traditional” way of doing things for the few multi-way switches I have just gives me a little pause if that makes sense.