Zigbee 2-1 Switch (On/Off & Dimmer) | Project New Horizon (Blue Series)

So Hot Right Now Projects & Roadmaps
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#549

Project Update: A little set-back and this is why I always get nervous opening up pre-orders. However, I’m thankful this happened prior to opening them up vs after.

UL came back with some comments that we had to think through, but ultimately made a decision which I’ll outline below.

We’re getting dinged for claiming our switches work with exhaust and ceiling fans (we’ve tested them and they do, but officially we won’t be able to say it and recommend it) as the fan listing requires a separate UL filing (read: more money).

Here were our options:

  • Continue down the path of UL certification 1472, which covers, “Solid-State Dimming Controls” and remove any marketing, stamping, etc of a fan rating.
  • Submit an additional UL certification using 1917, which covers, “Solid-State Fan Speed Controls” and claim the ability to turn on/off fans (w/no speed control - makes no sense, I know).
  • Go down a path Brilliant went down (as we cited them as an example of someone who has a switch that is UL rated for on/off, dim and fans) and use UL Certification 60730, which covers, “Building Automation Controls & Systems”

The third option intrigued me, but there were trade-offs such as we weren’t able to call our product a dimmer switch, but rather what we could say is that it is a controller that can control dimmable bulbs. This sounds good until you think of it from a marketing perspective where people are searching keywords such as, “Smart Dimmer Switch” or “Dimmable Smart Switch”, etc. If we can’t officially call it a Dimmer Switch, then that’s a huge setback.

The other thing is that we’d have to pay to cancel 1472 and then re-submit under 60730, which would delay us even further.

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Ultimately we are going to continue down the path of 1472, and launch it with that rating, but once they are in market, we will start the certification for 1917 so we can have two UL ratings on them. Technically the first batch of switches won’t have the rating, so that stinks, but I figured rather than waiting an additional 6wks or so + spend another $25-30k for a niche case, it’d be fine launch as is.

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So what’s the bad news?

The bad news is now they’re targeting mid-June to finish UL, which puts us at an early July release… Ughhh…

I guess on the bright-side we have more time to perfect our instructions and knowledge-base :unamused:

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Blue Series 2-1 Switch - Enhancements/Bugs Thread
#550

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#551

I need a minimum of 20, and the wait is killing me!

#552

I second epow’s and mamber’s comments. How much would I have to pay to move these switches to the front of the UL certification queue? :joy:

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#553

@Eric_Inovelli So the main reason for not pursuing 1917 now is the time delay? Sounds like if you guys are going to spend the money anyways after batch 1 then that part is moot? Yet the batch 1 switches could still unofficially control a fan with on/off only?

Personally I’d love to see a plain on-off fan rated switch (that also dims lights) in the first batch. Perhaps mine is an esoteric use case, but I usually keep my fans at the same speed and don’t care as much about speed control via the switch (would be nice but isn’t a must-have). Mainly I’d love to be able to get in bed and shut off all the household lights and make sure my fan is running with a single command.

#554

You and me both lol – the shelves at Inovelli are filled with bulbs and bulbs only – I’m eating Ramen and Potatoes for dinner, standing on the street corner begging for change over here to keep things afloat!

Maybe $50k? I’ll throw in a free Inovelli polo!

Main reason is time + money. I know it’s embarrassing to say, but after seeing the Insteon announcement, I know we’re not alone in the struggling, so I’ll just put it out there.

This has been a very difficult couple years with supply chain, with late 2021 and early 2022 being extremely crushing. We still don’t have any leads from our Z-Wave manufacturer on when they can expect to get us enough chips. We managed to get some for our B2B customer, but none for ourselves. We’ve been sold out on Z-Wave switches for 6+ months, which means no income.

We’ve had to cut the team down to 4 of us, most of us working 60-80+ hours just to keep this ship afloat with the hope that ZigBee comes through. Every month that goes by with no switches means we keep cutting into our cash reserves, which luckily we’ve managed to keep along with some of our larger B2B clients PO’s.

But our bread and butter – you guys – we have nothing to provide other than bulbs, which no one really buys.

So, when the choice came up to pay an additional $25-30k and delay the project an additional 6-8wks, we made the decision not to pursue it right now as ultimately that’s like $80-100k worth of expenses (overhead + UL costs) and a potential miss of maybe $400-500k of revenue (I know pre-orders are open, but most people are more confident when there’s actual product in stock). Meanwhile, UL has been backed up and while they tell us an additional 6-8 weeks, I don’t trust them bc they’re shutting down entire cities in China (where UL is testing).

We expect the first batch to sell out in a few months and depending on how pre-orders go, we can get the second order before the first one runs out. I’m hoping that if we have a strong pre-order, we can use those profits to pay for the second UL listing and get that off the ground. Who knows, if you guys rally, and UL somehow pulls off the 6-8 week window, it may hit the first batch, but I didn’t want to promise it.

Hope that gives more context?

Trust me when I say from a marketing perspective (my background) it sucks to have to remove a feature and as someone who has a smart switch on an exhaust fan, I’d be semi-upset I couldn’t use it and would have to wait for a dedicated one, so I get it.

Yes, I’ve been using the 2-1 on my ceiling fan for a while now (just replaced it with the fan switch unit).

That’s the kicker – I’m kind of pissed about this bc they keep saying it’s a dimmer switch that can, “act” like an on/off switch, but the fact is we built in a hard, “on/off” that physically cuts the relay. On top of that, they’re making us get a fan speed UL rating? We aren’t even using it for fan speed.

I’ve explained this so many times, but I just don’t think they get it and/or have any prior examples of a switch like this, so they’re just trying to play it safe. I’m not sure.

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#555

Actually, there are other items in stock. I just ordered $11.00 of red and gray ones (color switch paddles), because a diet of ramen and potatoes is too high in carbs to eat every day…

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#556

“…(I know pre-orders are open…”

Typo or did I miss this on the product page for the blue series?

Don’t need a 10pk but will pre-order to support you guys.
GL and thanks!

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#557

Just a poor choice of English on my part lol – I meant it as, “I know pre-orders are open during this time…” (the 6-8 weeks UL would be doing the additional certification).

My bad :slight_smile:

I should have the page opened tomorrow or at the very latest over the weekend. I’m just trying to finish the Zigbee2mqtt and Hubitat instructions today and tomorrow so that everyone can feel confident in seeing the switches working on their platform of choice. I’ll probably get to the Alexa instructions after pre-orders are open as that’s the easiest one to do.

Thanks for the support, it really means a lot!

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#558

@Eric_Inovelli makes perfect sense thanks for the thorough explanation!

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#559

How much for a ETL certification? Seems like you can get one for about $19.99 (Zooz pricing anyways).

#560

Apparently I stumbled onto this site on the perfect day! I spent all of yesterday reading through this thread and got the pleasant surprise at the end that I hadn’t missed the preorder! I getting a new place in July and I’m excited to get to use these Blue series switches to smartify my lights!

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#561

Alright all – finalizing everything today (hopefully). Would anyone mind skimming through the various pages to let me know if I missed anything and/or if there are any outstanding questions or things I can clarify?

Here are the outstanding items (if I’m missing anything, let me know):

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Aux Switch

  • 10pk Aux Switch Page = I don’t have pricing, so I can’t put that one up yet. I’m hoping to get final pricing over the weekend, if not early next week
  • Single Pack Page = I need to build it out more and my focus has been on the 2-1, so I need to give it a little more love, but it’s pretty straightforward.

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2-1 Switch (Single Pack & 10pk)
Thes pages should be good – I think I have all the disclaimers up and accounted for (they are at the bottom)

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Random

  • Color paddles are not going to be ready in time. We are having a hard time matching Lutron colors - @Darwyn_Inovelli is working on it.

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Product Pages:

Setup Pages:

A caveat on the setup pages. You may see some notes to myself to go back and fix (ie: Replace URL or Replace Pictures, etc).

The feedback I’m looking for is: Do these make sense and can things be clarified better? I realize it’s difficult w/out having the product in hand, but from a first impression, I’m curious what you think.

#562

I was looking at the setup instructions and I have 3 suggestions:

  1. Since device handlers seems the way to go for most users at this time I would suggest you change the language to something like “device handlers will work for most users” and for the edge drivers something like “if you’re feeling brave”; IMHO by calling them old and new you are implying that edge are better, but later you explain they aren’t complete
  2. When looking at the instructions to install the device handler I don’t see or can’t recognize the blue series
  3. You might want to explain why someone would want to use the default pairing vs the manual pairing holding down the three buttons

Bonus: when using dark theme some of the diagrams are hard to read because you have black text over a very dark background

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#563

Is using an aux switch preferred over two (or more) smart switches in a multi-way setting? The wording of the notes section under Multi-Way (Smart) - Neutral Wire scares me a bit (“You will have to rewire your setup to a non-traditional way of wiring (we’re going to put 120V to each switch) so that the switch will work.”

Not sure of a better wording and maybe this is more just for my planning purposes than something that would be helpful to others, but there’s a part of me that just wants to buy a bunch of contractor packs of 2-1 switches and make everything the same. But the idea of changing wiring to a “non-traditional” way of doing things for the few multi-way switches I have just gives me a little pause if that makes sense.

#564

Also the instructions to bind switches together seems missing from that section

#565

Non-traditional means line to every switch instead of powering on/off line and traveler in 3+ way arrangements in the red series, I assume it’s the same here. I had to rewire a few light fixtures and a few 3-way switches to comply with inovelli’s needs. It is “non-standard” and requires electrical work, but it all meets code of course.

#566

Awesome, thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.

Updated, great suggestion!

Updated – thank you. I should have the URL shortly, although it may be kept private for a couple weeks prior to launch.

I struggled with this one tbh – curious on your and everyone’s thoughts on how to best explain.

Here’s how the switch works:

  • When power is first restored to it the switch will start the pairing process (ie: auto-pairing) and it will send a signal to the hub that it’s ready to pair. This eventually times out after 3 minutes.
  • If you miss that window or you install the switch without a hub and then want to pair later, the easiest method is to hold down the config/upper paddle for 20 seconds. This will factory reset the switch and also put it in pairing mode.

I thought about just scrapping the auto-pairing and tell everyone to start with the manual method bc at least it would factory reset everything, but then I thought people may be confused as to why their switch is pulsing after first install.

Good catch – updated :slight_smile:

#567

@Eric_Inovelli one thing that might be useful is a list of “community contributors” that can be tagged and/or messaged that consistently are helping others on the site for specific installs. I’d be more than happy to represent ZHA and/or HA and could be helpful on ST as well.

#568

Great question and we get it a lot actually. It really comes down to preference. Some people prefer having the LED bar at both ends of the 3-Way, while others are content with having an auxiliary switch (and some are ok with a dumb switch).

Here are the pro/cons to both IMO:

Aux Switch

  • Pros
    • Cost effective (saves you $20+)
    • Does basically everything the Blue Series does except it does not have an LED bar (with the Blue Series, you can multi-tap the aux switch for scene control, and all the other configuration parameters will be mimicked when using the aux switch – ie: if you set your ramp rate to fast, dim speed slow, etc, when you press the aux switch, the smart switch will still acknowledge those parameter changes)
    • Wiring is basically the same as it is with a dumb switch

  • Cons
    • Not a cohesive look (very close, but not identical as there’s no LED bar)

2x Smart Switches

  • Pros
    • Provides you with all features including animated notifications and an LED bar
    • Cohesive look/feel to your house

  • Cons
    • Not budget friendly
    • As @kreene1987 mentioned, the re-wiring is to code, but you may have to climb up to adjust your light fixture lighting which is a pain if you have vaulted ceilings or a fixture that’s hard to get to – he’s exactly right in that you’re just rewiring it so that line power gets to both smart switches
    • Not all hubs support ZigBee binding which is required to have two smart switches (right now we’ve confirmed Home Assistant and Hubitat, but are working on SmartThings)

Me personally, I would go the aux switch route simply bc the extra LED bar is not worth the extra $20 – and despite my pickiness of ad copy and other marketing design, having an aux switch not match my smart switch isn’t that big of a deal to me. I know I’m shooting myself in the foot regarding sales right now, but I thought I’d give my honest opinion. As I said though, everyone’s tastes are different!

Yeah, this is a good point and the more I’m thinking about it, I think this needs to live on both the product page as well as the instruction manual and wiring pages.

Maybe just a blurb or graph or something that shows the differences between the various setups. What do you think?

Yeah still working on those :laughing: