Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)

So Hot Right Now Projects & Roadmaps
#363

We definitely don’t need precise lux readings (they won’t be precise anyway, it’s probably easiest to aim for arbitrary units) but it would be really nice to at least get out something more precise than 1-10. Bins that small won’t let people adjust the finer end of the scale to match their actual lighting.

I’d suggest exposing a value that goes 1-256, do the log-scaling in software on the switch so those values are at least ballpark linear to the human eye. This will be much easier for most people to understand and work with than a 2048 count log-scale value.

When selecting sensors, aim for more resolution in the low end of the scale - the difference of a couple lux will matter a lot for some people’s “the lights are off, or very nearly off” automations, where nobody really cares at all about the difference between cloudy and direct sunlight. If the max on the sensor is 500 lux, you’ll save a lot more of the scale for the low light situations where precise control matters.

As far as use cases - my existing motion sensors offer brightness that I can use to help decide “should this light come on, and how much”, this would do similarly. It’s possible to use the various automation frameworks to say “ok, of the 12 lightbulbs nearby, which ones are on, and what does that mean about whether this one should come on?” but that’s a huge pain. It’s much easier to say “it’s dark, so we’ll turn on the lights when someone comes into the room.” The tricky thing is understanding what “it’s dark” means contextually.

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#364

  1. A Lux sensor would help me round out my home automation with less upkeep. Cloudy days my house gets darker than usual, thus an automation around “timing of sunset” isn’t always accurate. Being able to kick off/on lights using lux readings versus scheduling would be more accurate and a lot less upkeep from creating routine etc.

  2. For me, accuracy would only need to be accurate enough to tell when a room is dark/light, but would need some accuracy of how to distinguish “cloudy” dark from “night dark”.

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#365

Another thought with the lux sensor is how you report those values. I think this was already discussed, but here are some visuals to help. You need to know that big changes in lux at the brighter levels aren’t very noticeable to the human eye, but changes at the low end are. So if we graph it on a linear scale, it doesn’t really match with what our eyes see.

Linear scale plot:

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Log scale plot:

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The change in lux during ramp up in the morning from 6:30am to 9am is a very small fraction (maybe 10%) of the max lux if you plot it linearly, but if you do the log plot now that change is 70% of the total. So you are able to capture a LOT more granularity at the dim levels, which is where you need it.

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#366

I also would like to have precise low lux but don’t care after,
I wanna know the difference between total dark and low light, for instance, when you wake up at night you need almost no light just to navigate the corridor so you need to know that is not actual dark but just enough light if that make sense.
the log idea seem very good

Will it be possible to know thee distance between the person and the sensor ?

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#367

Two things.

  1. Lux is not a measurement of how bright a light source is but is a measurement of how bright the surface is illuminated.
  2. Here is a chart of the typicasl lux values.

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#368

The lux sensor is the most important for knowing when the light can turn on or not. If lux sensor is not integrated into the switch we will need to add an extra sensor in each room. As smart home integrator I never install motion sensor in a room without lux sensor. By adding an external sensor it increases the overall cost of the project and defeats the purpose of choosing the mmWave switch for not having external sensors installed.

#369

I’d be happy to use the lux sensor just to know if I should turn on the lights or not based upon available ambient light to start with. That said, I always like having more options on the data granularity than fewer. I have no idea if I’d use more than a single threshold though, but having it exposed is nicer than buckets/levels just for the ability to choose how to use it without configuring buckets/levels.

Configuring different levels would just add to the complication of using it and describing it, but it isn’t a deal breaker for me.

#370

I already use the lux sensor embedded in my HUE motion sensors to dim based on the lux level (illuminance) in couple of rooms (with Home Assistant). That way, I’ve always the best possible light level.

You product is a smart dimmer switch. Automate the switch action based on the presence is great but automate the dimming action based on the illuminance of the room is the way. And this requires a pretty accurate lux sensor.

It’s ok if day one, it’s not fully integrated and just exposed.

I’m waiting to see if your switch will include or not the lux sensor to actually pull the trigger.

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#371

RE: Using MMwave

Forgive me if this has been discussed already.

I have some experience with testing MMwave sensors. I like them a lot, but they do require some understanding and that makes me a little concerned about how this product may be received in the field.

  • I hope you are putting the sensor on the board with a socket. I’d want you to be able to swap the board if needed.
  • I actually hope you opt for a Bluetooth enabled sensor board to allow for customer configuration. Perhaps allow for the software to toggle the Bluetooth on and off.
  • The radome design is important. I assume you have addressed this but putting these behind a curved surface that isn’t consistent in it’s thickness of material will impact the function.
  • The normal orientation of a switch is vertical. Many of the 24ghz sensors are on a board that is long to separate the send and receive pads. These orient horizontal.
  • MMwave sensors have a back lobe of sensing and shielding can be expensive. Best to check if they can sense more than a few inches behind since these are installing in a wall. They will also sense though materials like drywall.
  • These will sense pets and ceiling fans and there is very little you can do to minimize that unless you go for an LD2450 and go crazy complex with your customers to make them set up exclusion zones.
  • Switch locations are not normally located in the most ideal location for a radar sensor. Close to doors and walls. Without a way to adjust direction like you can with a non in wall sensor you are potentially getting a less than ideal field.

I’d suggest considering a 5.8ghz sensor due to board size and the fact that that work pretty well for basic sensing. They penetrate objects better so get one with the ability to control sensing distance. Meaning where the device events on movement.

I like this idea. Based on my experience with about 10 sensors I just have some concerns that people are going to be frustrated with the sensor not working great and you will be inundated with discussions and disappointments.

MMwave is great on the ceiling. Great with no ceiling fans or pets. Fast and accurate. Great at micro movements like breathing and sitting still.

An alternate suggestion for offering an MMwave sensing product would be a wall socket. You can locate them better than light switches or at least you have more options. Honestly, a good sensor might be making a nightlight looking mains powered sensor that plugs into the top socket of a wall outlet. The top of it could pivot slightly to allow for some degree of aiming.

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#372

Well you’re in luck. The latest update on the indiegogo page mentions that they were able to include the lux sensor!

I came by here to see if there were any progress updates, since that last one was more than a month ago.

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#373

Yea, this looks nice.

image

#374

Sorry if this has already been asked before: Will this switch support thread?

#375

Not right now. Currently the switch will only be produced in Zigbee and zwave variants and based on the performance of the 2-1 Thread/Matter version and what capabilities will be supported by Thread, Inovelli will decide at what point they pursue a Thread version.

#376

Thank you rohan!! This might be the wrong place to ask but will I be able to control “pure” thread bulbs (such as the Nanoleaf essentials) with this switch using Home Assistant as a bridge?

#377

The switch won’t directly be able to, but you’d be able to write automations using the scene controls to do so.

#378

will I be able to control … with this switch using Home Assistant as a bridge?

Basically yes, for anything that you put in the blank. That’s kind of the point of both this switch and home assistant in general. You will probably have enough latency to notice, though, just by going through home assistant locally to change protocols.

#379

I may be missing it, but has there been any update on timeline recently? Are these still expected to ship in December?

#380

Great question – I’ve updated monthly via Indiegogo, but I should probably get a mailing list together or something as some people haven’t ordered through Indiegogo.

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To catch you up to the parade if you’ve missed it, the last update I mentioned that we would have to push back the production schedule as we really wanted to push to add in lux monitoring which we ended up being able to do. This caused a delay.

This month, we also ran into a snafu in that the mmWave sensor we were going to use tested poorly (HiLink) and their specs did not match what we were promised. I think they were hoping we wouldn’t test the module prior to purchasing it or something as we tested their module alongside two other ones that were similar size and theirs performed the worst. Very disappointing.

We’ve settled on a new mmWave sensor that has a better field of view (150° as opposed to 120°) and tested the best. Much of the month was spent negotiating the price, redesigning the PCB and testing.

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All this has caused a three month delay with most of the delay coming from Chinese New Year. We’re targeting March 25, 2024 for Mass Production.

That said, a three month delay in exchange for a lux sensor + a better mmWave sensor than what we originally scoped seems like a fair tradeoff. Disappointing, but it could be worse.

I will update the timeline shortly.

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#381

Thanks for the update! While I’m eagerly awaiting these devices, I will gladly wait a few months for a better mmWave sensor and a lux sensor. The increased FOV will be a huge improvement too. Thank you for all of your hard work on this project!

Edit: I just re-mapped out my floor plan and the 150° FOV is a HUGE improvement over the 120° version. The room coverage is so much better—no more gaps in coverage in key places!

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#382

Also just updated the timeline. I didn’t realize I hadn’t had it in there - there’s a lot that goes into this project, so I tried to make it as detailed as possible for everyone.

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Timeline (Estimated)

The initial timeline will be shown below once released and will be updated monthly (if needed).

Phase 1 - ID Design

Design & Render Based on Samples and STP File
  Est Completion Date: Aug. 19, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Structure Design
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 12, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

3D Modeling
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

3D Print Housing for Prototype Sample Assembly
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 12, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

First mmWave Radar Type Election Test
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

First Testing Environment
Ceiling Installation, Wall Installation (Open Area), Facing Door, Facing Window, Near Fan & AC Unit
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

First Test Different Human Status Indoors
Motion, Micro-Motion, Stationary Status
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Second mmWave Radar Type Election Test
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 24, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Second Testing Environment
Ceiling Installation, Wall Installation (Open Area), Facing Door, Facing Window, Near Fan & AC Unit
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 24, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Second Test Different Human Status Indoors
Motion, Micro-Motion, Stationary Status
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Submit Report on mmWave Testing Specific to Avoiding False Positives
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 26, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Submit Details of Default mmWave Configuration for Customer Feedback
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 01, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

PCB Layout Design & PCBA Making
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 12, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Schematic Diagram Design
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Power Board Schematic Diagram
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Wireless Board Schematic Diagram
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Firmware Design & Test
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 20, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Phase 2 - Detailed Design

Hand Sample Making
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 15, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Hand Sample Testing & Verification
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 20, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Tooling Build Out & Testing
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 20, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Packing Design (Functional Card, Inner Tray, etc)
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 06, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Phase 3 - Beta Testing

Create Beta Units
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 15, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Round 1 Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 29, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Round 2 Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 08, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Round 3 Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 18, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Final Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 28, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Marketing Material

Manual Creation
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 15, 2024
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Box Design
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 15, 2024
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Insert, Wiring Guide, etc
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 15, 2024
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Certifications

Zigbee/CSA
  Est Completion Date: Feb. 15, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

FCC/IC
  Est Completion Date: Feb. 15, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

ETL
  Est Completion Date: Feb. 15, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Mass Production

Mass Production
  Est Completion Date: Mar. 25, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

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