Yeah, I like the idea. Although we do need a way to make certain issues a priority and filter out the ones that just aren’t going to make it. We don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings but “it would be cool if you could update the firmware to play mp3 files directly from the switch” is an example. I could see a lot of these types of things getting added if it was public facing. We could think of a way to be more transparent with progress of requests though.
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C’mon man, you didn’t have to use my idea in your example!
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Sorry, but this still doesn’t clear the confusion about Matter.
Thread is the actual protocol that some Zigbee devices can upgrade to because they’re both based on IEEE 802.15.4 radio. For example, Apple HomePods and newer AppleTVs already implement Thread.
Matter is a connectivity standard (Think of it as a framework). Matter uses Wi-Fi for high-speed connectivity and Thread for low-power (As in a wall switch or handheld remote). Matter can also use Bluetooth LE for initial setup. I don’t know if having BT LE is a requirement but many devices implmemting Thread also supports BT LE commissioning. Matter also defines the rules for the IPv6 connectivity (They’re not connected to the internet but all Matter devices run IPv6 to talk to each other), and Matter defines the payload.
So having a Zigbee radio that can be upgraded to Thread does not guarantee that it will be supported by Matter-compliant hubs.
Well ok then! I guess I’m in over my head 
@EricM_Inovelli - are you able to help save me from looking like a complete idiot!?
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This might help. It does indicate that ZigBee devices can be upgraded to Matter AND that devices do not have to have both (or all three) types of radios.
Wait, is the paddle remote on the roadmap the same as Project BFF from last year Paddle Remote | Project BFF - #53 by sibicle ?
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It is… so many great ideas, so little R&D money.
Good question – we’re still going back and forth on this one. The lead times for 700 Series are pushing 52 weeks and the company that wanted these is also trying to figure out if they can wait that long or just scrap the project altogether.
While we’d like to sell it, I’m not sure what the actual demand is. So, it’s kind of in limbo right now.
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Do you need 700 for Zwave LR or could you just do 500 series? Seems silly to have so much processing power for something so simple (when compared to Dimmer).
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We’ve chosen ZigBee/Matter to target the Mass Market as we believe that is the future right now
What I’d like to buy are Inovelli switches that use Thread. Are you working to make sure at least the firmware can be reflashed to use Thread?
It would be nice to have a Thread SKU that “just works” with Apple TV and Homepod mini. Newer Eero wireless routers can also act as Thread hubs.
I have Red series Zwave now, but if I were to invest more I’d rather go all in on Thread than Zigbee. Given that Zigbee and Thread have somewhat similar underpinnings is it possible for at minimum the switches to be engineered so that they are thread “ready” where a firmware update can basically change them to Thread switches?
My first preference is that you release these switches as Thread first, maybe providing Zigbee firmware as an alternative.
Was there any polling of customers on this? I’m kind of curious if I’m an outlier here or what proportion of people would prefer going to Thread rather than Zigbee.
Thanks for the transparency you all give!
I’ll wait for Maycock to officially weigh in on everything as I really don’t understand the technical side of how all these protocols work, but from the article above, it seems like we’re all talking about the same thing.
From the article:
*What the heck is Matter? Matter is a smart home interoperability protocol that was launched by Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung, and others back in December of 2019. The goal was to create standard data models for popular smart home devices so these devices could work with one another without having to figure out which ecosystem “talked” to the particular device a consumer wanted to buy. Instead of a consumer wondering if a Nest thermostat was HomeKit compatible, Matter will ensure that a Matter-certified thermostat will work with any Matter-compliant sensor or controller.
What the heck is Thread? Thread is a radio protocol developed back in 2014 by the folks at Nest to connect devices to the internet and to other devices. Along with Wi-Fi, it’s the chosen radio protocol over which Matter devices will communicate. Low-power devices that send small amounts of data will use Thread, while devices with access to power and those that have higher data needs will use Wi-Fi.*
Also, from the build with Matter site:
Matter makes it easier for device manufacturers to build devices that are compatible with smart home and voice services such as Amazon’s Alexa, Apple’s Siri, Google’s Assistant, and others. The first specification release of the Matter protocol will run on Wi-Fi and Thread network layers and will use Bluetooth Low Energy for commissioning.
Given that Apple is a part of the Alliance:
The Matter SKU’s should work with Apple which is definitely a goal of ours.
As for ZigBee, maybe it’s confusing the way I outlined this. We have to start with ZigBee first bc Matter isn’t officially ready and while ZigBee will be launched, it will be able to be upgraded via firmware to Matter.
Hope this helps?
I know it’s a confusing time and I wish I had a more technical background to explain it better.
Thanks @Eric_Inovelli. I think it does help a little. I understand that Matter is what everyone is excited about as far as enabling interoperability.
I think I’m just hoping the BOM for your new Matter enabled switches on the roadmap specifically include a chipset/radio that is Thread compatible from the get go even if at launch the assumption is you will need a Zigbee 3.0 hub to include the switches.
Post launch when Thread has more market penetration you could offer the same switch flashed with Thread firmware so that the same SKU could be used with a Thread network instead of a Zigbee network.
And if I was really being greedy haha, I would love for a BLE radio to be in there so that future firmware updates can enable super easy provisioning steps. For example, with your home hub app of choice, hold phone near Inovelli switch and it is recognized to be paired with your network.
Thanks for hearing me out! I’m looking forward to following this new line of products.
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For my 2 cents I love the config/favorite button just the way it is. I use it to store a very low dim setting for the light(s) the main switch controls. Then when it is dark, like when I need to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, I don’t have to fumble for it. I know it is basically right above the LED on my red series dimmers. Likewise, in the morning, when my eyes are still 1/2 shut it is easy to hit when I stumble into the kitchen to make my coffee.
I can’t say I ever found I hit it by mistake because it was too far out.
My biggest problem with the switches are that they are physically too wide, by about 1/8" each. I had to hire electricians to put them into my 2 gang boxes as they were so tight. (I live in a condo that mandated metal boxes with metal rods on the top and bottom to route the cables so I couldn’t replace them with bigger plastic ones). And some boxes had even more wires, especially in a 3 way situation, so if they could be a bit less deep that would be great too.
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How can you have two hurricane switches control one canopy module? I can make it so that I have a neutral at each location, I just currently don’t because of how I had to send the power to the current box. If I didn’t have to receive AND send hot to/from the main switch box, I could have neutral and hot at both switch boxes.
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Associations from the wired switch to the “secondary” switch.
I appreciate you sharing the roadmap, love your products…they are throughout my entire home. I’m glad to see you are focusing on lighting and switches. I’m in the process of remodeling my basement and looking to leverage low voltage/PoE lighting for various reasons. There aren’t many players in that market (yet) especially for residential, is this something the team at inovelli has explored?
What’s the difference between the 5 button switch and 5 button remote?
Switch is hardwired and controls 1 light directly. Remote is battery operated and can be pulled out of the wall to be mobile. Think Lutron Pico.
What I’m seeing (and not so thrilled about) is that all 70+ of my currently z-wave devices will end up needing to be swapped out at $50/each for WiFi devices. While Matter talks about using Zigbee, it sounds like they expect essentially all powered devices to use WiFi.
And. That means running into limitations/frustration with router capabilities (I already have like 100 things on mine and I have a small, 3BR house). Once people start automating more than a small handful of things, they’ll start running into the “255” limit on router subnets. Plus, I already have SO many competing wifi signals in my house (oddly, it seems like MY routers never show up as being that much stronger than 5+ from around my neighborhood). I am very concerned about how things will work with my cameras and other devices that pump a lot of data across my wifi when I add 100 more things to my wifi network.
And, in any case, both will be using the 2.4GHz band–which you already see people complaining about, due to congestion.
Given that we’re talking Google/Amazon/Apple, I’m also less than thrilled pondering what they are intending on doing with the “internet compatibility”. I can see them requiring that their stuff talk across the internet, etc. so they can get more marketing information from them (at least Google/Amazon).
It’s going to be interesting to see how this all shakes out., As I’ve said before, I’m deeply concerned about “smart home automation” being dumbed WAY down from the capabilities of hubs like HA and HE and becoming minimally useful things like Google Home/Alexa (because Google/Amazon have the “eye and ears” of everyone plus massive marketing prowess, most people won’t know anything else exists).
I do wonder what that means for Z-Wave in the future. The 700 LR stuff isn’t really started yet (that has some super interesting possibilities)–but if that’s totally not supported by “Matter” and you have Google, Amazon, Phillips/Signify, GE, Jasco, Yale, etc. all on board with Matter, it doesn’t leave much of anybody out there doing Z-Wave in the future.
And, as for Zigbee devices being updated to use “Matter”…it seems that may simply be reprogramming them to speak 2.4GHz Wi-Fi instead of Zigbee???
I guess that also means replacing 100 Wi-Fi devices so they all use the 5GHz (or newer Wi-Fi 6) frequencies to avoid congestion (although the 5GHz range is VERY limited range, so also means buying more routers).
All in all…I can see a lot of money leaving my bank account if I want to keep up.
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We are not planning to leave the z-wave market, I promise! Z-Wave will still be a major player for the big alarm companies, etc so I don’t personally think it’s going anywhere anytime soon. We have always really wanted to land those large B2B companies as clients and are now starting to do just that and they all want z-wave. Our plan is that any product we make in Zigbee/Matter we will also be making in Z-wave. It may take a bit longer due to our manufacturer not being very cooperative, but hopefully that will be changing as soon as we have an investor come on.
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