Update here:
(I have not yet had a chance to get an electrician in here yet - I’m trying to get a list of a bunch of things for him to do while he’s here, so please don’t scold me for that yet!)
I managed to change out the leviton timer a few weeks back. I installed a red series on off switch in its place (first/left position). White wire was HOT, so I wired it correctly. Works perfectly.
My attention is back on the 2nd and 3rd combo switches. Updated picture is attached.
On the top part of the combo switch, the white wire is HOT. On the bottom part of the switch, the black wire is HOT. I disconnected the top white wire and tested for a hot, and the black wire on the bottom still remained HOT. They are on the same circuit.
Still no idea what the bottom switch actuates. After a month, still don’t know what it does…but it’s got power, that’s for sure.
Just wondering if you’ve got any new ideas with this new info.
I don’t have any new ideas, but I have continued concerns about how you are going forward.
Take the Inovelli you just wired in the left-most position. The first thing to remember is just because it works does not mean it is correct, complies with code, or is safe.
If I understand correctly, this is a 2-way (i.e. single switch) that controls a light. It appears to me that this is a switch loop where power originates from the light. The fact that the white is hot is consistent with that, as that is the common convention for how an electrician would wire that, at least in the US.
In a switch loop the constant hot is sent to the switch over the white and returned switched back to the light over the black. The neutral stays in the light box. So if this switch was in a box all by itself, you would have a non-neutral situation.
What troubles me is that you have added a neutral (because a switch needs one … the dimmer doesn’t). My suspicion is that this is a “borrowed” neutral, meaning that it is from a different circuit. I’m thinking that because if there was a neutral in the box the electrician likely would not have wired it as a switch loop. The hot would have originated from the box.
At least in the US, borrowing a neutral from another circuit is a code violation, for good reason, as it may present a dangerous situation. I don’t know the Canadian code, but I can’t imagine that it’s not prohibited in your country as well.
Of course, I could be incorrect as this is just my suspicion from looking at your drawing. Quick question . . . are the left-most Inovelli and the 2nd left-most switches on the same breaker in the panel?
First of all, thank you again. I take your responses seriously, so if you are telling me to stop, then I will.
The left most switches (position #1 (inovelli), #2 (combo) and #3 (combo) are all on the same circuit. When I turn off the breaker, they all go dead. There is no electricity whatsoever to all three (top and bottom of the #2 and #3 combo switches also go dead).
Let me say that again: there’s no power to the first three switches, counting from left to the right, when I trip the breaker.
The 4th switch (far right) is on a separate breaker. Obviously, I turn that one off too when I’m opening up the box.
Bry, you are also correct that the 1st swtich (inovelli) controls a light. It actually controls LED soffit lights around the outside of the house. I’ve got Home Assistant monitoring the position of the sun, and the lights kick on/off at sunset/sunrise.
I’m sure they’ve sent wires up the soffit lights, and come down to the box - which is why the white is hot (my amateur theory anyway, but seems consistent with your previous answer).
Yes, if they are all on the same breaker and you only have to flip one breaker to kill power, then you haven’t borrowed a neutral, which is good. A bit hard to understand the wiring approach, but it may not be incorrect. Maybe that’s how they do it in your neck of the woods.
So…my question now is: how can I replace #2 and #3 combo swtiches with an inovelli red series on/off?
I don’t care if the red series controls both parts of the combo switches - I don’t know what the lower halfs do anyway.
Can I connect the two hots on the combo and then pig tail to into the red series? Then do the same with the line wires? (the other two wires have to be line wires if they’re not hot I presume).
If you tell me to get an electrician, I will…and I can finally leave you alone for the long weekend
It’s always a good idea to get an electrician if you are unsure. I’m not going to comment specifically on how to wire things, however. While I will often help when I’m sure of the configuration, I’m less so certain with yours. The weird (to me) switch loop with a hot on the same circuit in the box, as well as conductors that you have no idea where they go gives me concern.
But to answer your question, if you have two conductors that need to be wired to the same terminal on an Inovelli, there are two backwire holes on the switches and dimmers. So you do not have to pigtail, just use both holes.
I would still get your electrician to look at that when he/she comes out.
Here is why I find that strange. Let’s say you are an electrician roughing in that box. We’ll disregard that 4th switch and other circuit for simplicity. Start by bringing a hot and neutral to the box via a 2-wire (which you have, apparently, according to your diagram). So if there are three switches in the box, for example, you pigtail or daisy chain the hot to one side of each of the three switches. Then connect the blacks from the load wires to the other side of each of the switches. Bundle all the white neutrals together and all the bare grounds together and you’re done at the box.
But in your case for some reason, the leftmost switch didn’t get it’s feed from the hot in the box. Somehow, an unswitched hot (i.e. line) shows up in the light box for that Inovelli leg and gets switched via a switch loop. Why didn’t the line start in the switch box with the other two switches?
Maybe I’m missing something and someone else here may have an idea of what is going on. I know that it seems like all three switches are on the same breaker but that hot starting in the light box suggests otherwise. It’s still troubling to me, so I thought I’d post back.
Latest update (in case anyone is still interested):
Electrician came in, and installed the switches. Eliminated the two combo switches in the middle by tying together the line + load on the bottom halves of #2 and #3. No current passing through them, so they may power outlets somewhere yet to be found. Here’s the latest wiring diagram.
So now…the red on/off switch powers 8 LED lights on my stairs. Works just fine…that is…until you turn red series switch OFF (referring to #2 switch in diagram, all others work find, the bulbs are different).
And get this: only 3 of the 8 LEDs flash very briefly every 10-15 seconds or so. What a lovely new problem to have!! When I pull the air-gap, the flashing stops. I’ve started to read about the Aeotec bypass, but the electrician doesn’t think that will help (or he just doesn’t know).
What’s really weird is that only 3 of the 8 lights flash. Is this a thing? Maybe they’re the first 3 on the circuit? Would appreciate any knowledge/ideas how to fix this one.
If you have incandescents try those first to rule out any weird wiring. Then try LEDs and set the min power level to 80%. If that works lower until flickering starts again.
I’m thinking the bulbs are incompatible. I have a couple no name red and green LED bulbs that I’ve had for quite some time. They flash when off connected to a LZW30-SN. Other LEDs work fine.
One per circuit. You could technically install at the switch since you have neutral there, but most installs are at the light. Not saying 109% the bypass will fix it, but worth trying before finding new sconces.
It makes a bit more sense knowing that you’re using drivers with low voltage bulbs, not just 120VAC bulbs.
One thing to check on is to determine if those drivers are ELV or MLV. I looked at the Hatch Lighting website but the data for the LCA004-UNI driver doesn’t specify. Inovelli dimmers support MLV only. They are not compatible with ELV drivers.
