Dimmer Switches | Random Shut-off Issue | Data Collection Thread

Digital Lounge General Discussion
#29

I installed another LZW31-SN today in a 3-way configuration. While at first I was shocked that it stayed on at full brightness, it shut off after about 5 minutes. Here is the configuration for this switch:

  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? 1x Incandescent and 2 x LED
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? switch reports 69.6W
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? sorry, unknown
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)? 3-way
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup? Neutral
#30
  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? 4x13w LED
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? switch reports 48W
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? Philips 9290002197
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)? Single Pole
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup? Neutral
#31

I have the issue identical in description to what others, e.g. in “silencery”'s post.
I have 8 LZW31-SN. 4 in single pole mode, 4 in 3-way with dumb switch.
I’m pretty sure it’s not a defective LZW31-SN switch issue. Here is why…
I only have turn-off issue at one 3-way switch; 3 other 3-ways work fine.
At the problem location (switch)… I swapped dumb switches - no change, same turn off issue at the “problem location”.
I swapped the “problem location LZW switch” with "a “working location LZW switch” - the switch from a “problem location” now works fine at “working location”; while the working LZW switch, now in “problem location” is shutting off. In short, the issue is environmental, location/installation specific.

All 4 3way locations are wired identically, “classic” style. All have Neutral. I’m an electrical engineer, I double checked all wires in all locations… I’m quite sure wiring is indeed the same and correct (yes, it’s possible there is a wiring mistake, yet it’s not very likely)

Settings in all 4 3way locations: neutral, 3 way with dumb switch, min dimmer 35%

Using openHAB, however this does not seem material because I also reset the switch to factory, then manually set parameters 21 and 22 - same exact result.

I can reproduce the issue very consistently when both below are true:

  • dumb switch is in 1 particular position (no issue when dumb switch is in another position); and
  • LZW is above 80% (no issue if LZW is dimmed below 80%)

Here is a description of the “problem location”:
Load is 4 65W incandescent flood bulbs (260W total). Ceiling recessed cans. I tried with 2 bulbs - same issue. For the record… all “working 3way locations” have LEDs, wattage varies, all around 20 something. I hear you’re asking "did you try all LEDs in “problem location” - no, ran out of time (spend nearly a day experimenting, rewiring, rechecking, making videos), I can, pls lmk.

Video: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hhvHySq7OhyCxwdsodv-9IUle5jlbn4N
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C40Qip2WcXtUebnBJSnhJHgW7usfwPdH

Finally, it seems unlikely it’s a heating issue… the switch shuts off too quickly after it’s turned on. and it handles 260W for long time just fine (I mentioned - no issues working when dumb switch is in one particular position), not hot to touch.

1 Like
Firmware v1.44 (Beta) | LZW31-SN | Dimmer - Red Series (Gen 2)
LZW-31 SN in 3-way shuts off when dimmer is above 93%
#32

EricM posted in this thread that it may be a firmware issue. Not sure if you had read that post or not.

#33

It’s very nice of you @jtronicus to share the pointer, I missed that post.
I figure it may still be helpful to share my findings, if for no other reason but to add to test cases (wink-wink) once there is a fix. I’m [pretty] sure it’s not wiring or load, then must be firmware or interference (I’m guessing they are using pulsing for signaling which may get distorted due to other wiring nearby), or perhaps combination of both (tolerances in reading signal in firmware?). Anywho, a total speculation, I trust they will figure and I hope it’s firmware and not hardware. My role is to report.

Sentimental: Totally appreciate the thought that vent into the design of the switch and love the product. Even though it’s a bit of a pain in the … to use version 1 and take advantage of everything it can do. Well worth it

1 Like
#34

Thank you for the info. It helps confirm what we have been seeing in other cases. There is a detection method that is used to determine if a 3-way dumb switch is toggled that is creating false positives when the dimmer is at a higher percentage (in certain environments). The firmware engineers are working on a solution, but the current work around is to set the maximum level to 80 or 90%.

#35

Adding on to this thread in order to get notified if there is a fix…

  1. What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)?
    • LED (6 overhead cans)
  2. What is the approximate Load Wattage?
    • Between 40-50W
  3. Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)?
    • Utiltech (Lowes) BR30
  4. Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)?
    • 3 Way, neutral, dumb switch
#36

I have recently installed 6 LZW31-SN switches in my house. I have experienced the random shut-off issue on three separate circuits. I haven’t tried any of the mitigation steps mentioned here yet but I thought I would pass along what I have noticed.

Circuit #1:
Bulbs: Chandelier with 5 Hyperikon (but 1 appears to not work) dimmable led bulbs
Wattage: 9.5 x 4 (5) = 38W (47.5)
Set-up: 3-Way with a dumb switch
Power Type: Neutral
LZW31-SN Firmware version: 1.35
Notes: The problem ONLY manifests itself when the lights are powered on by flipping the dumb 3-way switch from the down orientation to the up orientation or, if they were off when the dumb 3-way switch is in the up position, by powering them on from the LZW31-SN. The lights always come on and then turn off again within 3 seconds. I have never had the lights turn off randomly when the 3-way dumb switch is in the down position.

Circuit #2:
Bulbs: A set of chandeliers with a mixture of candelabra style bulbs both incandescent and dimmable led
Wattage: Approx. 250W
Set-Up: 4-Way with two dumb switches
Power Type: Neutral
LZW31-SN Firmware version: 1.35
Notes: The problem manifests itself whenever either the dumb 4-way or the dumb 3-way switch is in the up position (only). It does not matter which switch brings power to the lights. If either dumb switch is in the up position, the lights will come on and then turn off after approximate 3 seconds. If both dumb switches are in the up position, the lights behave normally regardless of which switch turned them on.

Circuit #3:
Bulbs: A mixture of manufacturers of incandescent bulbs (Sylvania, etc)
Wattage: 320W
Set-Up: 3-Way with one dumb switch
Power Type: Neutral
LZW31-SN Firmware version: 1.35
Notes: Similar to the other circuits. The position of the dumb switch is critical. If it is in the up position, the lights will typically turn off (although in this circuit it takes closer to 30 seconds than 3 seconds as seen in the circuits above).

The remaining LZW31-SNs that I have installed in the house are in 2-way, 3-way, or 4-way circuits with auxiliary/add-on switches (GE 12723) rather than dumb switches. I have not seen this problem in those configurations. When I get a chance, I will try lowering the dimmer max to see if the problem disappears.

#37

And sure enough. After I configured all three troublesome switches to have a maximum of 80, the problem has appeared to have gone away (or at least it has gotten long enough I haven’t noticed it yet).

LZW31 Turning on then Off Immediately
#38

It is pretty much fact at this point that there is a firmware issue on the sensing line for 3-way installs that ghost trips the switch at higher levels than 80. Glad you found a temp solution, hope these guys find a permanent solution!

Did you find that brightness of the fixtures was the same at 80 vs 100?

#39

As far as I can tell, yes. The brightness seems about the same.
I will add, though, that I have still experienced the random turn-offs with the lower maximum in the last couple of days. They just don’t happen as often.

#40

Had the same intermittent shut off problem as others describe above - setting the max to 90% seems to be working for me, but want to stay part of the conversation in case a better solution comes up.

  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? Incandescent and low-wattage incandescent replacements
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? < 300w
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? mixed
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)?
    4 way with a dumb three way and dumb four way, with neutral
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup?
    Neutral set up
#41
  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? LED
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? ~20W? (4 LEDs)
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? Feit, LED BR30 65W replacement
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)? 4-way
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup? Neutral

1st time happened on this dimmer, but 2nd in the house. According to Vera the version is: According to Vera the version is
3,6,4,1,41
Sadly this was found by the wife.

#42
  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? LED
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? 100w
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? EZ-A615-BA-2700K, company name Electric Zone
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)? 3 Way
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup? Neutral set up

Setting it to around 80% seems to make the random shutoff stop. Is there a fix for this problem yet? Not being able to use the lights in this area at 100% is an issue for me.

#43
  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? LED
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? 120w
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? EZ-A615-BA-2700K, company name Electric Zone
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)? Single pole
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup? Neutral set up

Just had a lzw-31 (black dimmer) that’s wired in a single pole setup turn itself off randomly after a few minutes of being on today. Turned it back on and it was fine for the next few hours I had it on.

#44

Installed a LZW-31 SN Red Dimmer to control 5, 9W LED can lights in my kitchen. The light will randomly freeze and flicker. Pulling the air gap fixes the problem temporarily, but it will happen again within a few minutes.

  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)? LED
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage? 45W
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)? Ecosmart
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)? Single-Pole
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup? Non-Neutral
#45

What firmware version is your switch using?

#46

@amdbuilder to be honest, I’m not entirely sure how to view the firmware version. I’m running Home Assistant on a raspberry pi. I only have a mac and from what I can tell I need windows for that based on this post: How do I update Switches in HA? - #6 by harjms. Do you know of a non-windows based solution?

#47

@runr729 The only options I know are PC Controller on Windows or Hubitat upgrade tool. I’m not sure if HA allows you OTA upgrade or not.

Can you run a VM or you running new M1 Mac?

#49

Questions:
I have had issues with several switches but this one happened today so I’m posting about it. I have an Alexa Good Night routine that turns off my TV, turns off some other lights and then turns my Outer Hall light to 35%. It’s been working for about the 1 week - 10 days since I created it. Today, suddenly, everything worked except the Outer Hall light didn’t turn on. Likewise, I have an Alexa Good Morning routine that also turns on this light to 35%, turns on the lights the good night routine turns off, and turns on the tv. I also did that one this morning and it worked fine.

I also have a Hubitat rule to turn it on to 35% with a button 7 push which was working fine. In fact, I used it this morning. When the Good Night routine didn’t turn on this light I tried pushing button 7 (i.e. the config button). That didn’t work either. After turning the light on and off with a physical button 1 push/held several times it suddenly started working again.

If you do have this issue, can you please answer the following questions for us:

  • What type of bulb do you have connected to the switch (LED, CFL, Halogen, etc)?
    Halogen
  • What is the approximate Load Wattage?
    75W
  • Bonus Points: Make/Model of your bulb(s)?
    Philips Halogen 75 Watt Flood 25
  • Switch Setup (ie: Single-Pole, 3-Way, 4-Way, etc)?
    Single Pole (but there are Hubitat Rules for other switches that can also turn this on. However, there are no associations between this switch and anyother).
  • AC Power Type: Neutral or Non-Neutral Setup?
    Neutral

Params 1-4, 0, 3, 0, 0. Params 9 and 10 to 99. Params 12, 22 and 51 are not set.

Photos of bulb:

Outer Hall Bulb Photo Front
Outer Hall Bulb Photo Front3024×4032 2.34 MB
Outer Hall Bulb Photo Info
Outer Hall Bulb Photo Info3024×4032 2.02 MB