LED lights dim but stay on when LZW31 switch turns off (Neutral)

[Peterk]

HI everyone! I just bought some LZW31 Black dimmers and am having an issue with one that I hope someone here could help with!

I have an LZW31 configured as a 3-way dimmer (with Neutral) in conjunction with a GE Aux switch.
It’s controlling two overhead fixtures with GE LED10DBR LED bulbs. The dimmer functions normally from either switch with the exception that it won’t turn the lights completely off. When I turn off the dimmer the bulbs remain on at a very dim setting. I connected neutral to both the dimmer and the AUX switch and verified the dimmer is correctly set for installation with a neutral. Any ideas on what this could be? I would like to be able to go to bed without pulling the air gap!

I did try upgrading the firmware to the latest I found on the Inovelli website (1.41) but there was no change in behavior.

Thank you very much for your help.
-PeterK

[harjms]

You can try installing different bulbs. Yours are more sensitive and are illuminating with the smallest voltage /current flowing through them. If you can get new bulbs then you’ll need to install the Aeotec Bypass between the load and neutral either at the light or in the box with the switch.

I had G6 bulbs that refused to shut off. Bypass fixed the issue.

[Peterk]

Ah I see. Thanks for the info! I had understood the bypass might be necessary for non-neutral setups but it sounds like it may be needed for low-current neutral configurations as well. How common is that with these dimmers?

[BuilderTroy]

I had the same problem. Instead of going for the $15 bypass, I replaced the bulbs with Phillips Warm Glow bulbs and the problem went away. They were about $4-$5 a bulb but cheaper than the bypass and had better color. I am learning the hard way that the no-name LED bulbs tend to leak light even there is zero current flowing.

[JohnRob]

I found this youtube video interesting. It shows an LED bulb being dimly illuminated by the electrical pickup in just the wiring.

dimly lit LED w/o power

[Peterk]

Thanks a lot folks! I didn’t realize how little leakage current was required to trigger the LED driver. I wound up replacing the GE bulbs with CREE TBR30-06527FLFH25-12DE26-1-12 bulbs and they do turn off completely when the dimmer is turned off. I thought I saw a compatible bulb list somewhere on the site. If someone could point me to it, I’ll gladly add this to the list.

[Eric_Inovelli]

Hey @Peterk – do you happen to remember the GE version you had? I’m updating the bulb compatibility list now, so I’d like to add the GE’s to the incompatible list.

Thanks for sharing the Cree Model # with us!

Here’s the list for future reference:

Compatible Bulbs - Gen 2 Dimmers

[BuilderTroy]

Hey @Eric_Inovelli,

Here is an incompatible bulb I found in this link if you would like to add it to the page:

Looking for LED bulb type that needs bypass or else it stays on DIM

Here is the one that caused me issues: Fiet Electric BPOM60/830LED V2. Here is a link to them at the home despot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-60W-Equivalent-Warm-White-3000K-A19-Dimmable-LED-Energy-Star-Light-Bulb-1-Bulb-BPOM60-830-LED/303327484 Live and learn… sigh. Troy

Hope it helps! I am always looking for the right bulbs. Someone needs to make an LED bulb database where users can report/vote on their experience with a LED specific bulb. So much poorly designed stuff on the market. I am still looking for the perfect one (I know it’s out there!)

[Eric_Inovelli]

Done! Thanks for sharing – I must have missed that one when perusing the forums yesterday.

[Peterk]

@Eric_Inovelli
Hello! The bulbs I had originally are GE LED10DBR 303/827.

I’ve also noticed an interesting hysteresis issue with the CREE bulbs. I set them to a dim setting through my hub at night (almost always from a brighter setting) and they are dimly lit. However, when I turn them on manually in the morning with a single press of the switch, the bulbs don’t light up. Holding the ‘up’ paddle does get them to come on at a brighter level. I figure I’ll just change the ‘on level’ setting, but I wanted to see if this was a common thing as well.

Thanks!
-Peter

[Peterk]

@Eric_Inovelli. It looks like the FEIT Electric OM40DM/927CA bulb also stays on dim when the switch is turned off.

[Eric_Inovelli]

@Peterk

It looks like the FEIT Electric OM40DM/927CA bulb also stays on dim when the switch is turned off.

@Peterk

Hello! The bulbs I had originally are GE LED10DBR 303/827.

Perfect, I’ve added them to the list, thank you!

@Peterk

I’ve also noticed an interesting hysteresis issue with the CREE bulbs. I set them to a dim setting through my hub at night (almost always from a brighter setting) and they are dimly lit. However, when I turn them on manually in the morning with a single press of the switch, the bulbs don’t light up. Holding the ‘up’ paddle does get them to come on at a brighter level. I figure I’ll just change the ‘on level’ setting, but I wanted to see if this was a common thing as well.

Yeah, it’s fairly common – setting the minimum dim setting usually fixes this

[BuilderTroy]

I’ve also noticed an interesting hysteresis issue with the CREE bulbs. I set them to a dim setting through my hub at night (almost always from a brighter setting) and they are dimly lit. However, when I turn them on manually in the morning with a single press of the switch, the bulbs don’t light up. Holding the ‘up’ paddle does get them to come on at a brighter level. I figure I’ll just change the ‘on level’ setting, but I wanted to see if this was a common thing as well.

I found this same issue with my Phillips Warm Glow bulbs. If I start high and come down, I can get a lower dim level but if I start from off, they won’t turn on at that same level. It’s like the capacitors in the bulbs need to be primed before they will run at the 1% mark. For the record, for those bulbs I have my min set to 21 so that is my ‘zero’.