My wiring is setup to match the load in both boxes 3 - way diagrams. I have Phillips HUE ceiling can light replacements that I am attempting to control. (this diagram is what I’m currently wired too Red series both boxes
(I’m currently using a VZW31 red 2 in 1 with a dumb switch).
As expected from the information available this setup doesn’t work properly when smart bulb and 3-way option are both selected (The system works as expected in one position on the dumb switch but cuts power to the bulbs in the other). If i leave the smart bulb setting as “on / off” the system does control the power to the lights as it should for a 3 way switch so I’m confident the wiring is attached correctly.
Reading further it looks like the Innovelli documentation says smart bulb + 3 way requires an aux switch. Looking carefully at the diagrams it looks like I have to purchase a different aux switch than the innovelli, and rewire the lights to get my aux switch working.
Has anyone found another way to go here? I’m assuming that the aux switch will then only provide on / off type operation. It also looks like using two smart switches isn’t supported, although I would think that I could join the live wire to the second switch location with the live wire at the lights, the neutral joined at the lights and the traveler unconnected and just use the events to send similar events to the master switch.
If I’m understanding the rewiring requested in the aux diagram, the lights are setup so that the aux switch is essentially not connected at the lights and is just used via the traveler wire to signal the smart switch. (The live is always connected at the lights instead of being switched via the remote). Would that same wiring actually just work with my dumb switch?
All of the supported Aux switches, including the Inovelli one, are the same.
The Aux switch supports dimming, but not in your configuration. In your configuration, the dimmer doesn’t support dimming either, so neither will the Aux.
The issue is that you have a Zwave dimmer with a Zigbee bulb. If you had the Blue dimmer, then you could bind the dimmer to the bulb(s) and the dimmer would then work as you expect a dimmer would work. The Aux would then provide the same functionality through the dimmer.
With a Zwave dimmer, the only thing you can do to control the bulbs is anything by automation. So a double-tap up, for example, could instruct the hub to set the bulbs to x brightness. The Aux would mimic those commands, essentially doing the same thing as the dimmer.
You can put a dimmer at the second location without re-wiring at the lights. Just send a hot an neutral over the two conductors that are passed directly through the light to that far box.
The re-wiring at the lights for an Aux is because an Aux requires a neutral with a neutral configuration for the primary switch. The rewiring sends a neutral from where it stops, the light box, to the Aux box to fulfill that requirement.
To be clear, I currently have dimming working via Hubitat automations from the events generated from the red switch (hold button issuing dimmer start release issuing stop) issuing against the Hue bridge using Hue integrations.
I also am not opposed to switching to Blue (I have a few on order already)
If I follow your next suggestion for using two dimmers, I would wire the load directly to live at the master switch then hook the traveler to neutral and then wire the second switch up to drive the load and Hook the neutral / live appropriately?
Got it. Generally speaking, the Aux will tell the dimmer to send multi-taps on the Aux. With a hold and release, I’m not sure. Maybe someone else on Hubitat using that technique can verify.
Sorry, I didn’t quite follow that . . .
When you use two dimmers, one of them carries the load and the other just gets a hot and neutral. You then have to associate (Z-wave) or bind (Zigbee) the two switches so that the non-load switch communicates with the primary, load switch. If you’re all Zigbee then the switches and the lights get bound.
For wiring, you’d have to re-wire at the light box. There isn’t a stock Inovelli drawing for this.
The primary switch is essentially a 2-way. From that switch box, send to the light box over the 3-wire the constant hot, the neutral and the load over the 3-wire to the light.
At the switch box, from the 3-wire incoming from the primary switch, Load and Neutral to the light. Then, on the 3-wire going to the other box. Send the constant hot and the neutral over the black and white. Cap off the red.
At the far switch box, hot to line and neutral to neutral. Cap off the red.
Hope this makes sense. I can always draw it out if need be.
Your description seems to be for the case where there is a run from the primary switch box to the secondary. In my case the primary and secondary only connect to the load.
This is what I was thinking: (Which would make the far switch box the primary controlling the load (as a smart bulb non 3 way) and the switch with the line coming in would just bind to control the other switch. Probably safer though to do the aux rewiring so the colors match the general conventions coming into the secondary.
My description was with the light box in the middle but keeping the load switch in the same box as the line coming in. But yours works as well with the load switch in the other box.
That’s a terrible way to wire it. Bring the white as neutral and black as line right from one box to the other by connecting them at the ceiling and then use the red for the load from either box to the light.
That’s a terrible way to wire it. Bring the white as neutral and black as line right from one box to the other by connecting them at the ceiling and then use the red for the load from either box to the light.
Unfortunately looking at the ceiling right now I don’t see another option. The can lights are the original builder install and after loosening the screws it does not look like I can get at the junction box without cutting holes in the ceiling which I’d prefer not to do do at this point.
I’d welcome any other ideas right now. I also have multiple lights hooked to this setup in the ceiling so I don’t even know for sure which one has the junction box to the secondary switch behind it. I’m open to other ideas on how I could get this to work. I could use a battery operated remote I suppose and hard wire the hot in the secondary box but I really dislike any of those that I’ve come across so far and my goals was to not use them anymore.
Any chance that the non-line box switch is in a box where a hot and neutral is present? Or is it easier to get a hot and neutral from another source to that switch? Since it won’t have a load, any hot/neutral will do.
Updates for others who may come across this (and thanks again to those who chimed in to offer advice)
aux switch works a treat with the red VZW and does support dim / multi / tap etc
given that my wiring is not the case I first thought but the more common one down below I now also have the option of putting the VZW switch in either location which I may actually switch to as it puts the LED indicator in a spot that I prefer
no rewiring needed at the lights.
For anyone working with this setup here is what I eventually did:
1 x Red VZW31 switch
1 x aux switch (I used the GE Enlighten as it was easily available to me on Amazon)
Phillips HUE can replacement lights controlled via hue bridge and setup in the app
Hubitat HE 8 Pro
I associated the switch with Hubitat
I used the Hue integration app for Hubitat to add all the devices on my HUE hub
I used a button controller app with the settings below controlling the group of Hue lights
I now have single tap from either switch turning the lights on to 75%
Double tap up turning the lights on to 100%
Press and hold (up or down) to dim the lights up and down. (It was a little counter intuitive that the release actions are actually pushed / held on button 7 but I used the documentation on the Innovelli site to figure out those mappings)
Config button on the Red switch setup to change the scene
The red switch is configured as per the second screen shot in preferences
(Smart bulb, on / off, three way aux, local control and association are currently letft as default)
