I fixed this problem with my LZW30 by replacing the bulb.
I measured a small induced voltage between load and neutral when the switch was turned off. It’s not a switch problem. The induced power (31mV AC) was enough to dimly light the cheap LED bulb I had in the fixture.
Sorry if this a silly question, but when a neutral is connected, shouldn’t all the load for the switch circuitry be going through the line and neutral leaving the load to neutral current at zero? What do you think is driving that load if it is not the switch chips? (Or does this switch always use neutral -> load to get it’s power?)
Voltage should be zero when there’s a gap in the circuit… But this wire is bundled with others passing through the walls of my house. Electrical current flowing through those other wires generates a magnetic field which in turn induces a small voltage potential in nearby parallel wires. That induced current is what made my LED glow. Check out this.
@PA94301 Ah - I totally missed the induction part of your statement. Thanks for clarifying, appreciate it!
That’s a great explanation. I’ve been living with the glow by calling it a “night light” :). Can anyone recommend a brand of bulb of this size and base that won’t glow?
Try an incandescent bulb. For me, I had to use the bypass. The original bulbs were halogen and I swapped to LED. Going back wasn’t an option due to heat and electricity.
@iderdlk I had the same problem and tried both a 60W equivalent Cree standard bulb and the Phillips Warm Glow down light. Both of them fixed the glow problem for me. Seems the cheap-o no-name LED bulbs have the glow issue.
I don’t agree that it’s “not a switch problem.” I replaced an older Leviton Z-Wave (non-plus); switch with an Inovelli LZW30-SN. This issue did not occur with the Leviton but does with the Inovelli - clearly there’s something that a switch manufacturer CAN do to avoid it.
I would just swap bulbs, but in my case it’s with 78mm halogen replacements and I can’t find any big-name manufacturer that makes them. They appear to all be manufacturers I’ve never heard of, so who knows what may or may not work.
I’d hate to go back to halogen. Maybe I could swap in a newer Leviton switch, but I’d hate to have that one weirdo in a sea of Inovellis.
Not entirely sure if this is getting OT, but, I just installed 50’ of this:
And running the Red Series Dimmer with version 1.47 firmware, the lights do not turn off.
Is there a setting in the firmware @EricM_Inovelli, or will a bypass fix it? Right now, the air gap does the trick but is most inconvenient.
Thanks,
Charlie-
Bypass will most likely be needed.
It’s not an issue of whether or not there is something the manufacturer can do. The smart-ass answer to that would be “Yes, there is . . use other components and lose a bunch of capabilities in the process”. The issue is that manufacturers have to make a component choice when building the dimmers, and the bottom line is that they all have varying problems with LEDs.
Inovelli isn’t alone, Levitons have issues with some bulbs, so do GEs and HomeSeers. If you don’t want to go through the headache of finding a compatible LED, then stay with a resistive load.
The bottom line, IMO, is that the industry has a lot to do to get all LEDs and dimmers to peacefully co-exist.
I can just wire this behind the switch? There is no way to get to the rope lighting as it is behind perimeter crown moulding in the dining room. Also, I think that the little rectifier box on the a/c cord going in is actually an a/c to d/c converter.
Do you have a neutral available behind the switch?
My guess is you have the switch configured as NON-Neutral which means the small amount power for the electronics in the switch itself needs to go through the load. The solution is make sure you have a Neutral wire connected to the switch AND configure the switch for AC Power Type = Neutral
You just can’t go to a box where a switch is wired as a non-neutral and make a neutral installation. There is a reason it’s wired as a non-neutral, if that’s the case.
And just because the lights don’t turn off doesn’t mean it’s a non-neutral. You are correct that in a non-neutral, the voltage passed might excite the LEDs, but there have also been cases of this occurring with neutral-wired installations. In at least some of those occasions, the bypass solved the issue.
@cfpsystems The bypass at the switch MIGHT work, but those lights have to terminate at a box somewhere, right? You have to be able to access the box, so I’d put it there.
^ This. I was just thinking about it too. The bypass should be at the outlet or JB you terminate the rope light to; vice behind the switch.
I understand that…BUT… most homes built since the 1980’s should have a neutral running through all boxes and for all homes built or remodeled in the last 10 years a Neutral is required by NEC. It won’t be connected to any existing dumb switches so it may not be obvious when its stuffed in the back of the box with no connection to the existing dumb switch.
But we don’t know the reason. He didn’t say he has no neutral in the box. Maybe he just pulled the two wires off the original switch (hot and load) and wired them to the Inovelli without connecting the jumper to neutral in the box (because the original switch did not have a neutral wire). Or maybe he didn’t know that the switch has a software configuration to use Neutral vs non-neutral. We don’t know because he didn’t say. I’m just pointing out one possible solution to the problem since we don’t have all the facts of the scenario.
The switch is a neutral (the house is 2004), everything is neutral. I have the parameter set for neutral, load only, so I think I have that covered.
The wire coming off the switch (for load), goes up to the soffit, and there is a plug that the rope lights plug into (all accessible and in-code). Adding the bypass right to the back of the switch would be the most secure (the hardest part is digging the four switches out of that junction box and getting them put back in neatly).
So, is the consensus that this is what I need to order/ do?
The odd thing is that these lights are 1.12w/ foot, so I easily exceed the 25w minimum - this is what is confusing me.
Thanks,
Charlie-
So James (@harjms) and I both think a bypass is something to try. I can’ t say for sure that it will solve the issue, but it has for others. My thought is that for $15, it’s worth a shot.
I understand your comment about the wattage. I can’t explain why, but there is weird juju with LEDs. Technically, with a neutral installation, you shouldn’t need a bypass at all.
The conventional wisdom is to put the bypass at the light, or in your case the box. If the box is tough to get to, I suppose you could try it at the switch first. But if that doesn’t work, then go to the box.
@harjms . . concur?
@Bry Agree. My cabinet lights we’re finicky as well. House built in ‘17 and neutrals everywhere too. The G6 led bulbs had a slight dim no matter if on/off or dimmer was installed all set for neutral connected. Ended up installing bypass at first light (box too full) and have had zero problems since.