I understand that…BUT… most homes built since the 1980’s should have a neutral running through all boxes and for all homes built or remodeled in the last 10 years a Neutral is required by NEC. It won’t be connected to any existing dumb switches so it may not be obvious when its stuffed in the back of the box with no connection to the existing dumb switch.
But we don’t know the reason. He didn’t say he has no neutral in the box. Maybe he just pulled the two wires off the original switch (hot and load) and wired them to the Inovelli without connecting the jumper to neutral in the box (because the original switch did not have a neutral wire). Or maybe he didn’t know that the switch has a software configuration to use Neutral vs non-neutral. We don’t know because he didn’t say. I’m just pointing out one possible solution to the problem since we don’t have all the facts of the scenario.
The switch is a neutral (the house is 2004), everything is neutral. I have the parameter set for neutral, load only, so I think I have that covered.
The wire coming off the switch (for load), goes up to the soffit, and there is a plug that the rope lights plug into (all accessible and in-code). Adding the bypass right to the back of the switch would be the most secure (the hardest part is digging the four switches out of that junction box and getting them put back in neatly).
So, is the consensus that this is what I need to order/ do?
The odd thing is that these lights are 1.12w/ foot, so I easily exceed the 25w minimum - this is what is confusing me.
Thanks,
Charlie-
So James (@harjms) and I both think a bypass is something to try. I can’ t say for sure that it will solve the issue, but it has for others. My thought is that for $15, it’s worth a shot.
I understand your comment about the wattage. I can’t explain why, but there is weird juju with LEDs. Technically, with a neutral installation, you shouldn’t need a bypass at all.
The conventional wisdom is to put the bypass at the light, or in your case the box. If the box is tough to get to, I suppose you could try it at the switch first. But if that doesn’t work, then go to the box.
@Bry Agree. My cabinet lights we’re finicky as well. House built in ‘17 and neutrals everywhere too. The G6 led bulbs had a slight dim no matter if on/off or dimmer was installed all set for neutral connected. Ended up installing bypass at first light (box too full) and have had zero problems since.
I have 14 halogen bulbs connected to a Red dimmer. They never turn all the way off. The dimmer has a neutral wire connected. I’ve been told it is an inductive load, which I think is just a crap answer. There is something going on that I’d like to see resolved. Since hey are not led, and the load is way way more than 25w, I don’t get why they can’t turn off.
Halogens are resistive, but I don’t think that’s even relevant here. Resistive vs inductive normally comes into play when you are considering a switch’s capabilities. i.e. Is this switch rated for a fan because it has a high inductive load?
I can’t explain why the lights are staying on, but can only suggest what @harjms and I outlined above. In some cases, the use of a bypass solved a neutral installation issue. More than likely you have some phantom voltage causing the bulbs to illuminate. If that’s coming from the Inovelli or not is hard to say. It could also come from capacitive coupling, which is not uncommon. Dimmers are known to leak, although the OP’s issue is with a switch.
Of course, you should check your wiring config as well. If it’s a 2-way, insure Line and Load aren’t reversed.
Just wanted to let everyone know that the bypass did indeed fix my issue. These lights dim to true 0 with no Afterglow.
I ended up stripping the wires back right before the rectifier on the cord (I believe it is an AC-> DC converter, and installing it there. Any closer to the lights, I could not get!
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Charlie-
You can’t find the “solution” button because I started this thread :). It was originally about LZW30 (not the dimmer) (see title) not turning off fully with certain low wattage bulbs. This is still the case and bypass does not seem to help.
Agreed, I still have this issue with the LZW30 in a neutral configuration. I’ve just swapped in Leviton switches where it really bugs me (my bathroom vanity) and left the LZW30 where I can live with the dim glow (my patio).
Has anyone tried using a secondary relay to control LED lights that do not fully deactivate when connected to Inovelli switches? I’m grasping a bit, but I would think running everything through an additional relay might add some isolation. I’m looking at options to experiment a bit now.
I’m having this issue with an LZW30-SN (Red series on/off switch). The bulb in question is in a ceiling fan, and the switch was replacing a gen 1 scene enabled switch that couldn’t handle the inductive load. The bulb never had a glow with the gen 1 switch, but it’s been a problem ever since the Red series switch was installed.
Yes. It’s a single switch that decides if the fan/light combo gets power or not. The light is always on via a pull chain, and the fan is typically off, but turned on via pull chain. Ever since we have switched to the Red series switch we have to turn the light off via pull chain otherwise it sort of lights up our bedroom at night. Rather annoying when the older Inovelli switch never had this issue, but obviously suffered from another one.
Is the bulb swappable? Temporarily swap for an incandescent to see if that bulb goes off completely. If it does, you can try other LED bulbs (which I’m guessing you’re using now).
Or, you can try a bypass. If you go that route, you’re going to have to get it in parallel to the light only and not across the motor as well.
I don’t understand with a on/off switch a bypass is necessary, only the dimmer supports no nuetral right? Shouldn’t the on/off switch cut the entire load? Why is there ghost current that is allowed across. Also, on the dimmer, I would expect when you select the neutral wire setting, for the ghost load to disappear as well, or is that not the case?
Smart switches, both dimmers and switches, will leak some voltage. I don’t know the in-depth details of why that is, I just know that they do. Some LEDs have a very low voltage threshold. So when LED stays lit, it’s probably not ghost voltage, it’s leaked voltage from the switch/dimmer.
When you use a bypass in a non-neutral situation, it’s there because not enough current is being passed by the bulb to make it back to the dimmer to power it. But that’s not the only use for a bypass.
When you have a neutral configuration and leaked voltage is causing a bulb to remain lit, you can either try using another bulb or install a bypass. When you install a bypass in this configuration, it will draw down the leaked voltage hopefully to a threshold below that where the bulb with light. It is becoming more and more common that bypasses are used in this fashion.
I would agree that there is a relay in the switch the clicks on and off and that relay should remove all power to the load terminal.
However, my guess would be that they put a resistor and capacitor in series across the relay contact to protect the contact and make it last longer and that is what is causing the leakage current.
The R-C circuit across the contacts is a way to make lighter duty contacts handle more load, which Is why I expect it to be there.
I have the LZW30 with firmware 1.21 wired in a single pole- neutral configuration to three - 3 watt LEDs. I installed the switch about a week ago and am now having two issues.
First, like others here, the LEDs glow dimly when the switch is turned off. The switch is continuing to pass current when off. (I am also having this same issue with an LZW30-SN in a single pole installation with under counter LED Lighting)
Second, tonight, after turning the LZW30 switch off, the light is now turning on to full intensity automatically (between 2 to 30 seconds after being turned off), except the switch doesn’t think it is on. More specifically, when the light turns on automatically, the off button on the switch doesn’t work unless you first hit the on button and then turn it off. Similarly, Hubitat is reporting the switch as being off (after the light turns on automatically), so I need to turn the switch on and off remotely as well.
EDIT: Installed the Aeotec bypass and this fixed this issue for me
I just noticed last night that I have a switch that is doing this too. It’s on a 50W LED flood light. It really is disappointing when a switch with a relay switching the load on and off does this. I’m going to try measuring the leakage current to see how bad a phantom load this is.