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LZW31-SN: Lights do not turn fully off

I just installed 3 new switches, and overall am quite happy. The scene integration is the main reason why I bought these. I replaced the switches on some lights in my kitchen, but not all yet. Some are still using GE/ Jasco switches. I thought the lights looked slightly on during the day, but figured it was just my eyes playing tricks on me from staring at the lights. But at night now, it’s obvious that the inovelli switched lights are not “as off” as the GE/ Jasco switched lights.

The attached photo is using Night Sight on an Android, so it’s slightly exaggerated, but the light on the right is on the inovelli switch, and the one on the left is the GE/ Jasco.

Is there an adjustment somewhere that I can make 0% lower than it is? Thanks!

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EDIT: I updated the title to avoid confusion with “LED.” I’m talking about recessed lights that are LED, not the LED in the switch.

Is this a Red dimmer in a non-neutral installation?

There is a neutral hooked up.

To be more clear than my response last night. I have three switches installed and all of them do this. All of them are the Red Dimmer Series. Two of the switches are single-pole, with neutrals. The third is the switch I posted about in a different thread. It is normally a three-way, with neutral, but right now I just twisted off the pairs in the other switch box, so it too is essentially a single pole.

The two that are naturally single-pole I have paired to Home Assistant, the third switch I have yet to pair, so my hub shouldn’t be impacting this.

There is a minimum level parameter. But it is set to 1% by default. I can’t imagine 1% would light anything (I can’t imagine why its not 0%)

So you can check Parameter 5, it should be set to 1

It was set at 1. I changed it to 0 and tested, but it seemed to make no difference.

The light is bright enough that when you enter the house at night, it seems like the lights are on, at a night-light level.

The last thought I have is to check Parameter 21 it should be 1 for a neutral wire setup. Perhaps it changed from the default.

Else you will have to contact Inovelli :frowning:

21 is set to 1, and 22 is set to 0. I guess I may need a bypass, but I’m unclear why. The wiring in this area of the house is new (new panel, new circuit, new wiring, new lights all in the last 3 years). All of it was inspected, so I can’t imagine the hot/ neutral was swapped. It’s possible the LEDs themselves are cheap, but they worked fine with traditional Lutron dimmers, as well as the GE Z-Wave dimmer. I believe I have a different brand in the basement, so I could swap some to see. That’ll have to wait until tonight because it’s hard to tell that the lights are glowing during the day.

I took a picture of the three way switch when I removed the old Lutron one, and it was not hooked up to neutral, so it should have been switching the power line. I did not take a picture on the single pole switches, but I did have to add the neutral pig-tail, so that clues me in that the old switch also cut on the power, not the neutral.

I would agree. I guess its possible that your LED are very efficient and small currents will cause them to light slightly. In these types of dimmers there is always some very small current due to the internal filtering etc. That is why the air gap is there.

I pulled the LED out of the housing to expose the black and white wiring, then used my trusty voltage tester. With the LED switched off, the black line was still hot. I then removed the switch, and I had line and load set up as you would expect (hot wire was hooked into line).

I swapped the line and load at the switch, and now when the switch is off, there is no voltage at the LED. Why would this be? At the switch with the light off, the black wire that now leads into load, is hot. The black wire that leads to line is dead. With the light on, both are hot.

Shouldn’t this be the other way around? Where line is hot, and load alternates with the switch?

I can’t tell if the LED is glowing now, but the fact that there was voltage at the light previously and there isn’t now seems to indicate that the current wiring is correct - but it is illogical to me.

I started to try and sort the wiring out in my head but then I started to think…

  1. Is this the no-neutral you referred to?
  2. When you measured the line voltage, where was the other probe connected?

When I measure an unknown wire I always measure from the wire to the safety ground (bare wire). You probably already know but the safety ground meets the neutral in the breaker panel. So it is better to reference your measurements to the safety ground, especially in a 3-Way wiring situation as sometimes power can be transmitted by a white wire.

Everything in this room has a neutral - and as far as I know, it’s all wired correctly to code :slight_smile:

I didn’t measure it per se, just used my Klein volt meter (it beeps when you approach a live line - slowly between 0 and 48 v and fast between 48 and 600v). It was beeping fast when I approached the black wire of the light, with the switch off. I then reversed the line and load at the switch, and it no longer beeped at the light, with the switch off.

Now that it’s dark, I can confirm that the LEDs no longer glow when off. This is very surprising to me…

BTW - I really do appreciate the help on this forum. I’m a new user, but have posted two things and received great feedback. So thank you for your help thinking this through!

I had the same issue with the light in my shower. The light over bathtub is the same, but the switch also controls another bulb so I didn’t have the issue with my tub light. Found this video that might https://youtu.be/_bgUy6zA0ts. I ended up using another tyPe off switch.

What is the total wattage of the LEDs controlled by this switch?

Also, what is the order of the terminal labels on the back of your switch? I had a case with my one Zooz Zen27 dimmer replacements where the printing on the back labeling each terminal was wrong because somehow the printing was upside-down from the correct orientation. I verified the correct terminal wiring by taking the switch apart and looking at what each terminal was labeled on the circuit board.

Total wattage on two of the circuits was just 1 recessed LED (max 10w I think). The other had two of those LEDs. I can see through the cracks on the side of the switch and can see that the board is labeled the same as the case. I can’t explain it, but changing the line and load made the difference.

@fdi3260 - Funny video. I’m surprised someone can shock themselves that much and then bust out some circuit diagrams. In this case I was replacing a GE/ Jasco switch. So I really don’t think it was the lights or wiring.

Based on your load info, it seems the low wattage on the circuit is causing the issue. One option is to put in a load bypass, which is more typical for non-neutral setups that have low attached loads.

Another thing to possibly check is if parameter 21 is 1 (should be by default, but you never know…). That and checking if the neutral wire is firmly attached. But I’m thinking the main issue is the low load on the circuit. You could try removing one of the two bulbs connected to one of your other switches and see if you observe the same behavior when that switch only has one LED drawing power.

Another thing to check…
Your neutrals can be incorrectly wired.

Each circuit should ONLY be connected to it’s own Neutral and NOT another circuits neutral.
Some switch gang boxes have multiple circuits entering them (i.e. you need to turn off multiple breakers for that gang box to be dead.)
ALL the neutrals should NOT be tied together.

Example… 2 circuits enter switch gang box…

  1. Front Door Lights (FDL) Breaker
  2. Hall Lights (HL) Breaker

WIRE 1) FDL Circuit Neutral with FDL Switch Neutral AND FDL Lamp Neutrals.

WIRE 2) HL Circuit Neutral with HL Switch Neutral AND HL Lamp Neutrals.

Hopefully that makes sense and helps. :):mag_right:

Old thread but I had the same issue with my LZW31 (neutral, load-only, single 4W cheapo LED bulb) and wanted to add my data point. @nomearelti’s was the only comment I found suggesting swapping the line and load. I tried that as a long shot before springing for the bypass, and it worked, so thanks! I also have no idea why (or how the dimmer functions at all like that).

I just hooked mine up to 48 1 watt led outdoor bulbs with the neutral and they are still barely lit when turned off. Will try swapping line/load tomorrow am and will update. Thx for the idea.