One switch per room (almost) in new construction - will it work?

I’m facing a similar decision with planning for our future Garage Mahal retirement house as a clean-slate construction. First question that I have in the lighting department is why everything in the 2020’s needs to be 120V AC? With 12V LED lighting, it seems practical to cut the power company out of that aspect completely with a small battery bank and a solar panel or two to keep them charged. I’m sure that the wire nut cartel has the electrical inspectors on their bribery payroll, so I will probably wind up installing the bare minimal requirements for 120V AC lighting to pass the inspection for a certificate of occupancy.

I believe that many mini-split and larger AC units have KNX support, for use in overseas apartment buildings, hotels, etc. i haven’t dug too deeply into KNX, but like the idea if all the switches are low-voltage and controlled by wired relay modules on a central DIN rail like I believe it is architected…

My guess: Voltage drop

Given an equivalent run over identical copper at a fixed length, you’ll have about 10x the voltage drop for 12V vs 120V.

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And current requirements.

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Yes, every 12W of LED lighting would be 1A of current.

I have 24V LED strips running around my main living area and they draw almost 10A at 100%.

No offense, but I think that’s a terrible idea. You might be happy with such an arrangement (and ultimately you want a house built they way you want it) but I think you (or your heirs) will have a very difficult time selling it when that time comes.

I would wire everything up normally, as if you were going to install multiple switches. For the switches you don’t want, you could use something like an Aeotec Pico switch, and just put a blank plate or filler panel where the switch would normally go. Then you can program the one Inovelli to control those.

Putting a bunch of remote Inovelli swithes in some sort of AV closet isn’t going to buy you anything. That sort of thing might make sense in a commercial or industrial setting, but not in a house.

No doubt. I’d hate to see his bill for installing it. Your electrical contractor will probably love it as well. Copper isn’t cheap, neither is labor for all those home runs from the point of use back to some remote AV closet.

Even if installation costs and resale value aren’t a concern, how about the normal people that are going to live, visit or work in your house? We are not normal people. I have a bunch of button taps around my house that do all sorts of things, but my wife doesn’t have a clue and really doesn’t care to remember most of them. Nobody is likely to remember all the different button taps in every room except you.

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But that’s at 24 V, so it’s not comparable to 10 A at 120 V. The power is way lower.

That being said, I’m not sure how to compare it, but that wouldn’t overload a 14 AWG wire that is on a 10 A 120 V circuit, right?

What about ceiling fans? How would you control those? Also, for code, you’ll need switches at multiple ends of hallways and stuff, so this might not even be possible.

Hey, thank you for the feedback. I do appreciate it. No offence taken! But I think this is a lot less of a confusing setup than the idea you suggest.

Guests will not need to learn double taps or learn anything. Clicking the switch on turns on all of the lights in the room in a default way (nice warm white light). Off turns them all off. That’s all they’ll need to know.

The double taps and triple taps are only for us, and only for the “fancier” things we want to do. My idea, though, is that from ANY switch in the house, a double tap on turns on all the lights on the floor (save for bathrooms) and a triple tap turns on all the lights in the house. The reverse for double and triple taps off. Seems intuitive. We’ll probably use voice to control any special scenes, like for a party or something. But I could program the favorites button on the switches in each room to cycle through scenes if I wanted. Not sure yet.

If I put multiple switches in rooms, people will have click all of them to turn on lights, which means I’ve lost the smart home convenience at the switch. Or, if I configure one to turn on all the lights, people will wonder what the other switches are for. Or if I add picos or closed off panels, it’s just more clutter and not very attractive.

My electrician / smart home guy is a friend of mine, and a friend of many of the people I know. He’s not pushing me in any direction to get more money out of me. On the contrary, he’s been helping me save. This idea was generated by me from what I’ve seen online. My understanding from him is that this is the exact same setup electrically he puts in homes for a RA2 setup. And plenty of people are doing that. I could always move to that in the end, or so could new owners.

I also have to consider that we don’t know how people will be wiring homes in 20 years. I could wire this “normally” today, only to find in 20 years everyone is wiring their home more centrally like this. Certainly, Lutron is making a lot of money by putting single switches or panels in each room to control everything in the room or on the floor. Who’s to say we’re not going to be there in 20 and today’s “normal” way of wiring is outdated.

Hope that helps clarify what I’m thinking.

I’ll use fan switches for fans and they’ll always be local.

I’m definitely putting three ways in at ends of halls and such.

Ok, but what if you don’t want all the lights turned on. Maybe it’s the middle of the night and you just want one light turned on dimly so your guest doesn’t burn their retinas out :slightly_smiling_face:.

Anyhow, just playing devil’s advocate. If you think this will work best for you, go for it.

That’s why I have these plates everywhere. My house has three and four gang switches in just about every room. For consistency, I even have plates like this on single gang switches, even if its purpose seems obvious.

Agreed, the closed off panels wouldn’t look very attractive.

That’s my concern. The way houses are wired, for the most part, hasn’t significantly changed in our lifetimes (aside from grounding, ground and arc fault breakers, and other safety improvements). I doubt things are going to change much anytime soon. Now, if you’re talking about a high-end house where a Lutron or Control4 system might be a selling point, that’s another story.

These are all good points, and this is exactly why I posted this. I want to be challenged on this.

I get your point about “what if you only want one light on?” – and I’ve been thinking about that a lot and where that might be the case. First, judging by how we’ve been living in our current home, many of the rooms, like the living/dining rooms/kitchen, we always flip all of the lights on every time. In fact, we hardly ever flip them on, they just come on automatically at dusk. We have a few scenes set (a dimmer setting for evenings, for example that transitions on after sunset every night in all of the main rooms). Outside the automations, we have a “party” scene. And a “housekeeper” scene (extra bright white lights everywhere). But in years now, we’ve hardly ever touched or interrupted the automations.

But the kitchen is an exception. I sometimes DO want to adjust the brightness of the task lighting. So I’ve made sure I have some local switches in the kitchen that allow me to adjust the brightness. For example, we might have a dim kitchen when people are mingling at a party, but I might just want to turn up the sink or under cabinet lights to do last minute prep without turning on the default bright lights for the whole room. So we’ve put extra local switches there.

The other place I’ve made exceptions is vanity lights. You should be able to adjust those so I made those switches local. And guest room night stands.

And finally, if that’s not good enough for us, we can always use our voice to turn on/off lights. Or HomeKit on the phone. I realize that’s great just for us, but not guests. But I doubt guests will ever need to make those types of adjustments. But, in case, we’ll have tablets on every floor that can be removed from the walls to make individual adjustments. But in my experience, that’s pretty rare. We don’t run around our house adjust dimness and color values very often. Only when we get tired of our scenes or want a new one and then we make it once and save it.

I’m also considering other fun ways of adjusting individual lights. Like why not have small remotes right next to some of the lamps that we might want to adjust, like a reading light or something. I’ll figure that out when I move in.

And, yes, things like fans and shades all have their own switches!

I commend you on the neat and labeled switches. And I can imagine why you’d want individual adjustment on all of those. But I wonder if you really need a living room bank of switches labeled “Overhead lights, End Tables, Reading Light, Corner Lamp, Table Lamp” etc. You probably just want to push them all on. We have four switches in our dining room now. It’s always tap tap tap tap every time we want the lights on. I don’t even know which switch does what. I just want them all on.

I think a Lutron or Caseta system (or whatever comes in 20 years) will be a selling point for this house. I’ve been talking with a ton of people in the business and, while I’m nervous, I think this will work for us. And for future residents. We can easily install any matter of scene panels or whatever to control individual lights down the road in every room. Or we can go for one of the ready-made Lutron systems, which this will already be wired for.

Did you see the video someone posted above. Go to the 11:15 mark. This guy seems to be just powering a scene switch and he put all of his light switches in the closet. I downloaded his reflected ceiling plan and he just has scene switches in every room and it looks like one light circuit hooked up physically to a switch. https://youtu.be/xTpl7WYMkcA

Thanks again, for the input and feedback. I’m curious if any of this makes sense. But I also understand that something that might work for us might not work for you, and vice versa.

Why?
I have automation based on light conditions, humidity and time guard. My current fan switches are protected from local operations. I do not remember one case I needed to use them locally. Will not place them in bathroom in new house for sure.

I won’t :slight_smile: One controller per room (still exploring which one I will use, not that many options)
I am counting on presence sensors (I have 15 different types at home for testing) and voice as a back up (not cloud based, hopping HA voice will mature in 1/2 year)

Both Lutron and C4 have these systems for quite some time. Work like a charm.
I saw several houses using that.
Cost arm and leg (for no reason)

Not sure I understand the difference in maintenance or failure rate in these two concepts

So then my question to you is, why do you need each individual light wired to a switch in another room that’s remotely turned on by 1 switch? If you want all lights in a room to turn on all the time, why not just wire them all to the 1 switch and call it a day?

Honestly, as others have pointed out, you need to consider resale. This type of setup will 100% affect your homes marketability when it comes time to sell. Smart homes are cool, but not everybody can maintain them and you will be excluding a very large portion of the population if your ever try to sell your home.

It is very reasonable (not new) concept. I would think twice before using zigbee or z-wave for this. I am thinking about ESP and wifi approach (for example shelly)
Another point to consider is: do you want to keep all dimmers/switches in one switch closet, like maintenance room or distribute over the house, close to end points (I think gives cost advantage) and hide below paints, pictures or other design features (or pantry, closets etc) in electrical enclosures
After dealing with Zigbee2MQTT (more like suffering) I’ve decided not to use it in new house. That will be ESP based devices (wired application) and BLE for battery operated
Matter and thread are not mature enough yet. I am using HA

I have 2 (in some places 3) independent light circuits in the same area (like family room, living room), bathrooms have ceiling lights and sconce. Master bedroom has 3 independent circuits as well

Sorry. Not one light per switch. One circuit of lights per switch. All the ceiling lights, for example, on one switch. All the art spots on another. Etc.

If they’re all on the same circuit I can’t adjust the dimness separately. So separating out the circuits is a given.

The wiring matches the Lutron RA2 setup, so any future homeowner could install that system or whatever they desire.

Interesting. I’ll have a ton of stuff on the network so not keen on WiFi. Looking into the Thread/Matter switches though because of HomeKit tie-in.

As far as location goes we went for the garage for easy access. Closets tend to get full.

Which is common. But OP is looking for no more than 1 switch per room

So what benefit do you have of running thousands of extra feet of wiring and creating an over complex system that can’t easily be reversed or made “dumb” VS something like… Smart bulbs put into zigbee groups where each group can not only be dimmed independently but also have color/white tone controlled individually?

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This is ok, I have special server room for that, but running romex cable from one location to every end point is not that cost effective (both labor and material)