One switch per room (almost) in new construction - will it work?

Switches General Discussion
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Agreed. I’m not sure why they are taking the time to say this. I’ve followed this thread and found it interesting.

So you’ve thought through the switches, but what about everything else? Wew re-did our house with a renovation and addition 4 years ago, so I’ll share my reflections on that process.

Plan low voltage cabling now for presence sensors. I wish I would have been have to do more and think through it more, but I was doing it myself and racing the drywallers at the end. I would bury cable, probably 22/4 “security cable” in the corners in the ceilings of rooms for future sensors. Also, anywhere you’d want to detect someone walking through and turn on or off a light, say an entrance to a room, ends of hallways, top and bottom of stairs, etc. What’s tough is you don’t know the exact field of view of any PIR or mmWave sensors you end up using.

I also did power for blinds which has been incredible.

For cameras, either plan on getting some of those dual cameras with a 180° FOV, or run multiple ethernet cables to the corners of the house in the soffit.

I also did hardwired door sensors, both interior and exterior. My only regret is I didn’t do all the interior doors. It’s nice for automations. I have one exterior door where the cable got lost and the battery sensor has been a pain. It has to be lined up perfectly, doesn’t sit nicely on the trim, can get knocked off, and I have to replace batteries.

Obviously some ethernet for wifi access points as well as a hardwired doorbell.

62

Thanks for the info! This is very helpful!

OK, this is something I hadn’t thought much about. I think there are a few rooms where I want motion sensors that enable and disable lights… pantry, laundry room, and maybe powder rooms or even bathrooms. I was thinking of going with the mmwave Inovelli switches to detect a presence. But do I want them in other rooms, like the kitchen and living room? If it’s just for turning on/off lights, that’s probably not something we’ll do very often with presence. We usually want them on until we turn them off. But maybe there are other uses for motion sensors about the home. Let me know what you use them for!

Yep, definitely doing this!

Definitely… we’ve been planning out camera locations in the corners. The house will be authentic stucco, so thinking of placement now is key.

We are definitely doing all of the exterior doors. Tell me more about why you like the sensors on interior doors.

Done and done. We’ll have wireless access points in the ceilings (flush) and ports in all the key locations.

Thanks for all this info!

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Let’s goooooo!!!

I have a bed sensor built in (wish I had ethernet there so it wouldn’t have to be on wifi, but oh well, not like it matters) so when we get in or out of bed, lights can happen. It’s annoying though when I’m downstairs and the kids follow my wife to bed and the lights turn off on me. (It is set to only turn off when we are both in bed). Same with the bathroom, I want to detect presence in there to not only turn a light on, but turn a light off. Currently I have a PIR outside our master suite and it kicks on the hallway, stairs, and kitchen lights in the morning when triggered.

You don’t need to drop the wires in the corners of the windows, as they will be hidden by the shades. There’s a big write up on Lutron Serena shades on Reddit that I did if you are using those. I used the Monoprice 12 V CCTV power supply for like $45 rather than the Lutron one for like $450. Works like a charm.

I didn’t know this at the time, but now I want some cameras that point down towards the house and some away so I can see the kids more easily. I’m still planning to add some to increase where I can see.

Automations and alerts. In the morning I can open my kids’ doors and after a minute their shades raise up automatically. I can get alerts when they leave open their doors. Or I have one on the door to the attic and storage room so I know if they are going in there. I wouldn’t use it for lights at all.

Is someone pulling the low voltage for you or are you doing it yourself? I put some big, I think 2", PVC pipes from the attic to the crawlspace and that has been super helpful. Remember, you can’t fill a pipe even if you wanted to, as cables are going to get tangled and you won’t be able to pull more through.

Let me know if you have more questions, I’m happy to help.

64

I’ve gotten this same feeling TBH. Not so much the acting like every other idea is ridiculous, but definitely the feeling that OP is looking for people to agree with the idea and not truly seeking other suggestions.

I’ve said it a few times it’s a bad idea for marketability. I work with real estate daily. I can say with absolute certainty that things outside what is considered “normal” will absolutely reduce your buyers pool and affect the sale price of your home. Many buyers will back out as soon as they hear that in order to turn on lights in the home, they need to learn and maintain a smart home platform. This may not be an issue today, but in 10-15yrs you may regret this type of setup. We also have to consider how fast technology is changing. What works today in the smart home industry may be obsolete in 10 years and the new technology may work completely different. If that happens we’re talking tens of thousands in electrical work, busting out walls and ceilings , patching, painting, etc. If selling, you could expect this to be part of a buyers offer as well. You could end up using all of your equity just reverting it to a normal setup to be able to sell the place.

I strongly recommend against having a dedicated switch area to control the majority of the lighting in the home. Especially since there have been multiple suggestions provided that will give the exact same level of control while making it much easier to revert to a “standard” setup for future potential buyers.

The absolute best suggestion in this thread is the single switch on the wall wired to all lights with individual relays or smart bulbs at the light itself. As an added bonus, you’ll have a much stronger mesh network as well. If it ever needs to be reverted to sell your home for any reason, remove the relays/bulbs and you’ve got single switch control of all lights. If the other lights need individual control, it’s already wired to the main switch so all you need is to change your box to a multi gang and install additional dumb switches.

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Ok, you got me! I really thought tearing down a house and building a new one from scratch – from design to construction to furnishing and landscape – would really keep me busy. But I’ve found myself so bored and uninvolved that I decided to go online, put up crazy ideas, and waste time battling with people who question my intentions. Finally, something to do with all this time I have!

Look, I’m not sure replying to this post is really necessary. It doesn’t have any new thoughts and seemed mainly designed to twist the knife the first guy lodged. But, I want to give a more succinct explanation of why I decided to move forward with this plan, though highly revised and refined based on the comments I’ve gotten here. And this seems like a good place to do it for anyone who’s reading this.

Yes, some of these options for reverting back to a dumb home in the future will work. But the biggest obstacle I’m encountering to all of these ideas is that in order to preserve the option of reverting back to dumb switches, we will need to sacrifice a large part of our lighting plan and live with that sacrifice for 20 years.

We are big into layers of light. Our living/dining space, for example, will have 8 separate light circuits! Reverting that to a dumb home would mean a bank of 8 switches. Not a great look for a home for sale. Or, I would need to sacrifice the level of control we want today by consolidating down to 3 or 4 circuits in that room (and making similar reductions in other rooms as well), and then I’ve got to live with that for 20 years because maybe (maybe!) I’ll need to revert this to a dumb home in 2044, which is highly questionable.

And I’ve confirmed multiple times that this wiring setup is identical to some of the new-home Lutron high-end setups. This is actually my most compelling reason. The worst thing that can happen is 20 years from now, to sell the house, I need to install a Lutron system. Expensive, yes. But, really, who can really say what will be around in 20 years, and what that cost would be. And I don’t see people telling people who are installing Lutron today that they should sacrifice their plan so they can maybe revert their wiring to the old-fashioned way decades from now.

I don’t know how you can say that all of this taken together isn’t careful consideration of my options and making an informed decision. In the end, it might be different than what you might choose with the same information, but, hey, you gotta find a way to live with that.

So, thanks again to everyone who has helped me along the way here. I do appreciate the help and the kind comments. If I learn something new along the way, I’ll be sure to share it for others who are considering going down this path.

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Agree. Share anything you can for others. You’re not spending my money so do whatever you see fit.

The folks who built my home thought there was great decisions and I think otherwise but I still bought the home. The 80 year old who bought my previous home with all the smart switches probably thought the same, but they still bought the home.

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67

Out of curiosity, why not install a high end Lutron system now? You’re already wiring it that way, it’ll be programmed and just work out of the box and you’ll have a support team to utilize if there any features you need or things changed.

I think a lot of the pushback you’re getting is that you’re wiring it like a commercial Lutron system, but you’re installing consumer gear in it and the way that the consumer gear is getting installed is non standard.

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68

Great question! Early in the process we visited the home of a Lutron rep, and he demonstrated a lot of the Lutron features in his home, and really pushed the idea. But a few things bothered me:

  1. Lutron gives you minimal control over changes to your setup. They push you toward paying a monthly fee to have an advisor who can reboot your system, set up zones for you, etc. I want to manage that myself, and I don’t want to pay anyone a monthly fee to maintain a system that is already very expensive to install.

  2. I want to do more than Lutron offers. I love reading about how people use motion sensors, thermostats, aqara cubes and so on to automate their home. I want to link all manner of appliances and lights and sensors the way I want.

  3. I want to use Siri for voice, and I found the Lutron voice controls too simplistic and they didn’t work well in the home of the guy who was demonstrating for us. He finally admitted he usually goes up to screens and presses buttons to do what he wants.

  4. I want to have color lights, not just dimmable white light.

That’s kind of the basics of it. It’s a very closed system and I want to play around with so much more.

69

You are correct!

To be clear, you do not need to wire this way for a Lutron system. However, I’ve confirmed that this wiring is not just used in commercial applications but in a lot of larger, high-end homes. But, yes, I get your point here. There is no ideal solution for me today. So I’m making a sacrifice either way I go – If I go Lutron, I pay some dude out the wazoo to move my floor lamp from the library zone to the living room zone. If I go with this plan, I’m relying on maintaining switch-to-switch connections and a robust network. I’m going with the latter because I like control and I want to have complete freedom to try a bunch of fun stuff for this home.

That’s part of the reason I’m considering moving from my original plan of Blue switches to the Whites. I believe most of my basic automations and controls will live in HomeKit, but not require an internet connection. I can do further automations or other fun stuff in Home Assistant. Matter binding isn’t available yet, but when it is, I’ll be just communicating switch-to-light or switch-to-switch, so I won’t even need HomeKit to turn on my lights.

A bit risky, yes. That’s why I made this post. Thanks for the feedback!

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But this is the part that I feel you’re missing. What exactly are you sacrificing by using a relay at the fixture vs a switch hidden in another room?

A relay will have all of the same functionality and control as a switch. You can still bind it to a singular smart switch within the room. You can still individually control it through an app. You’ll lose the capability of having a physical switch to control it, but I don’t think your plan is to run out to your garage every time you want to turn on a second light so functionally you end up in the same place.

Smart bulbs when bound to a smart switch will also give you the exact same granular control with the added benefit of being able to have colour as well as tunable temp for things such as circadian lighting (which is an absolute game changer in home lighting). I realize you mentioned you plan on having some fixtures without changeable bulbs which is fine, you could use a relay on those. But brands like Philips Hue and Aqara also have some smart fixtures and down lights. Smart bulbs bound to a smart switch can be dimmed separate, have individual on/off control, individual dim control, literally everything a smart switch can do.

I feel you are so focused on the initial idea, that you are not realizing you could actually have MORE control over your lighting plan by taking the suggestions of others without having to put yourself in a situation where you will be limiting your buyers pool in the future. What you’d be saving in copper wire could all be put into higher end fixtures. And while I get you’re planning long-term, trust me when I say people have opportunities come up that require unexpected moves all the time. I see it multiple times weekly.

When you’re looking for suggestions and shooting down every one you’ve gotten in favour of your initial idea, it gives the impression that what you really wanted was validation. And whether it’s a good idea or a bad idea, the decision is ultimately yours. I’m not here to argue, it’s your home, you do as you please. I’m simply trying to point out things that you should consider with a plan such as this one. Take the advice or not, that’s up to you.

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If this is your issue with relays it does seem to be based on a misunderstanding. Relays can actually be installed at the fixture itself as well. No need to try to shove 8 relays into a single gang box. And if there’s an issue with the relay, you just have to lower your fixture to access it.

When reverting to a dumb setup in the event of a sale, I also wouldn’t recommend having 7 or 8 switches. You’re right, nobody wants that. I’d look at having 2-4 and grouping lights together with whatever configuration is logical. Such as 1 switch for all overhead fixtures, 1 switch for all can lights, 1 switch for all accent lighting. You don’t need 1 switch per fixture.

Thinking further through your 1 switch goal, there should be a few situations where you’ve got 2 depending on your layout. I’m thinking rooms with multiple entry points like a kitchen or living room. If you can enter your kitchen from the right side and also the left but only have 1 switch, you’ll end up having to walk completely through the room to turn the lights on about 50% of the time.

72

This answers your question right there for this post and your other post.

Freeing myself from the confines of wiring for a dumb home means I don’t have to consolidate lights like you have to for a dumb home.

In the end, we want 8 light groups in that room. And, no, we don’t have 1 switch per fixture. These are 8 groups of similar lights. All cans on 1 switch, all art spots on another, all chandeliers (2) on another, etc. I know that seems like a lot, but it’s what we’d like. So if I go with a wiring plan that can be reverted back to dumb switches (relays or running wires behind the switch panels), then I’d have to do what you’re suggesting here and group non-related lights into fewer circuits. And all that just because I might have to revert back to dumb switches. I get the tradeoff and risks. That’s not a trade off I’m willing to make. You might choose the consolidation route to be able to go back. Both are good directions! Does that make sense?

To be clear, in cases where a three way or even 4 way switch is necessary, we are doing that. I’m not making people walk across dark rooms. :slight_smile: My only goal is to be able to turn on all of the lights in a room at once without having to tap several switches.

My exception is in some rooms where I really might want to just control one group of lights – like island pendants, and vanity lights. I’ve got local switches there so I can brighten or darken on the spot.

Only about 1/3 of my switches in the house are remote (in the garage). So we will have plenty of switches in the rooms as is.

We’ve really got to drop this, ok? It’s really not adding anything to the conversation for you to continually accuse me of wasting everyone’s time because I’m going in a direction that’s similar to what I started with. Don’t extrapolate that into anything personal. I get you don’t like my plan and it doesn’t work for you and I respect that. I’ve actually appreciated the advice you’ve given me on this thread throughout. But let’s move on from this part of the conversation if you want to continue it.

73

Sorry for the slow reply. Very interesting ideas. I’ll have to think more about this.

We’re having it done. It’s above my pay grade. Not much attic in this house though, so PVC won’t be useful. But spent the day with the electrician future-proofing (speaker wire, cables, ethernet) everywhere we could. Thanks for the input!

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