I found a copy of the correct manual on the z-wavealliance.org website:
https://products.z-wavealliance.org/ProductManual/File?folder=&filename=MarketCertificationFiles/3438/LZW31-SN%20Manual.pdf
I think one of the issues with speed of the switches is how the firmware/device handler was created. On other switches that have scenes (i.e. Zooz); you have the option in settings to enable/disable scenes. With Inovelli’s switches, scenes are on by default and no option to disable it - so when the user press the switch, it is always checking/waiting for an additional button press; hence the delay.
Maybe give us the option to disable scenes if we are not using it @Eric_Inovelli @EricM_Inovelli
Hey guys, yeah we are looking into different techniques to get rid of the delay for users that don’t want the scene control. It will require an adjustment at the firmware level.
I’m surprised that Zooz allows you to disable scenes as according to the z-wave alliance, any change in which command classes are used should require an exclusion and inclusion. Maybe they have some trick to get around that though.
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@cmminear, bingo you nailed it, that’s the ‘speed’ I’m talking about. I know most switches allow you to change the dimming rate, but few address how they feel on the wall for people who don’t understand or care to understand.
Some even calibrate themselves to find minimum and maximum brightness of the bulb so it ‘trims’ the starting and ending brightness percentages which results in much better user experience as well.
@EricM_Inovelli thanks for jumping in, speaking for myself, I would be more than willing to exclude and re include every switch I needed to enable this firmware change.
Speaking of firmware, I assume these are OTA upgradeable? Even if it’s just with the zwave software and a stick at this point.
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Hey all, I have two of the Red Series and one Black Series installed. Build quality feels very good and equal to any standard Decora switches I’ve installed. Smartthings user currently, looking for the right local-execution hub.
I put a Red and a Black in our master bathroom to test the “Favorites” button (config button on upper right of the new Inovelli switches). On the Black, this is only a config button and in my opinion it should be much smaller. On the Red, since it’s a “Favorite” as well as config, the size doesn’t bother me. I set it up so when we hit the “Favorite” button, it turns on both sets of lights in the bathroom and both of the ventilation fans (which are controlled with Leviton ZWave switches that can handle the motor load).
Long story short, my wife does not like these switches in the bathroom and wants them out asap. The delay is significant (probably due to cloud based ST) and she could easily turn on four ordinary paddle switches faster. I’m not a fan of them in this application either. If you physically interact with the switches the delay is not as long, but it is still a delay even on the Black. Also, the audible click wakes her up if I use the switch during the night.
In other news, I have a Red installed at the top of the stairway to the basement. I have that setup so the “Favorites” button turns on the projector, receiver, Apple TV, and sets the lighting in the basement to theater mode. A double-tap on “Off” after we’ve watched a movie and are going upstairs to bed turns everything in the basement off. We both love the Red Series switch in this application!
I wouldn’t put these in every location in a home, but the Red Series in particular has capabilities that can’t be found in any other smart switch.
I love that Inovelli is pushing the envelope as to what’s possible with an in-wall switch and look forward to continued improvement and refinement!
Hey @EricM_Inovelli, is it possible to release a firmware update that reduces the delay (vs eliminating it completely) while keeping scene control enabled. Better still, make the delay a configurable option. That way each person can determine how fast to double tap or can also choose to turn it off completely.
I have some GE switches that support double tap mixed in with the Inovelli and they feel significantly faster (once again, relatively speaking). I also don’t have any problem at all with double tapping on them. That gives me the impression that your wait time for a 2nd tap is too long now.
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@samduster @gbenrus25 We will definitely be looking into optimizing the scene capability delay and performance. All of our devices support z-wave OTA so any firmware updates would be handled with that.
Thanks for the response! I would kindly ask for some clarification to your response, are you looking into improving performance with no option to disable the double tap scene capability or provide a way to completely disable it as well?
In my opinion there’s no way to speed it up enough while telling the switch to wait for another human input tap. The switch seems to have everything else but so far seems to lack a very important option in the firmware to control the user feel.
See this link of configurable parameters and let me know your thoughts:
https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1956/configs
Just throwing this out there, after playing around with options and settings, I found the delay is not as bad as I thought. The delay was being extended because for the first 50% of the light ramping up to full brightness, it was still off. if i set dim speed to 0 (instant on) the switch feels really responsive. or set minimum dimming to about 50% helped too!
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My wife hits the on button at least 5 times before there is any light in the room. She keeps complaining it’s broken.
You guys need to fix this on both red and black dimmers (I’ve tried both). Other brands don’t have this defect.
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Hey @rvenable, I had the same exact issue. Not sure if you’re on SmartThings, but the fix for me was to change the ramp rate and dim speed in the app and then go into the device on the SmartThings web view of the hub and then click Edit Device>Save for those settings to actually take effect. Once I did that they began acting as intended.
Also if she is double tapping or more, it will try to do a scene instead of a normal turn on.
she’s been using switches for years. she knows how they should work.
I replaced a failed zwave dimmer with this one. And, I’ve tried the black and the red dimmers. Both do the same thing.
It’s slow to ramp up when paired and not paired, doesn’t matter.
I consider this a defect in the firmware.
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I hear you and like I said, was in an identical position until I tried that fix. Just out of curiosity, what is your ramp rate and dim speed set to and have you tried the steps I outlined?
@jwm12 - Did this ‘fix’ make it that the lights immediately respond with both a manual press and controller?
I’m hoping some of this lag can also be fixed with ‘trimming’ and people are seeing lag from improper dimmable range settings, i.e. the minimum brightness for a particular light is 35% and when you hit the switch the light doesn’t respond until the dimmer hits the 35% ramp point (same goes on the upper end.)
Besides this, has anyone set the dim speed to 0 and still noticed the scene delay where the switch is waiting for a second tap?
I’m not on smartthings.
I’m using a Red Series Dimmer in a slightly different scenario and believe I can confirm that the lag is caused by the scene delay.
In my setup I actually have Hue bulbs in the fixture and the relay/local control disabled. All ramp and dim rates are set to 0 and the switch reports those settings as applied. In effect, the switch is only acting as a scene controller. On a single tap there is a significant delay before the bulbs turn “on”. I initially suspected that the lag was either in my mesh or as a result of the integration with my Hue Bridge. However, sending the “on” command directly from my Hubitat hub or activating them through Hubitat via Alexa is almost instant. I also unpaired the bulbs from the Hue Bridge and paired them directly to my Hubitat hub and experienced the same lag on single tap events.
It also seems the lag becomes worse when the switch has been idle. I suspect the switch may go into a low power state after some time. After the initial button press the switch seems to “wake up” and subsequent presses respond slightly faster. It would be nice to have some sort of “high performance” setting on the switch to alleviate this.
Keeping my fingers crossed that this can be resolved via firmware update or I may have to look at another solution for that location. The lag is so significant that guests assume the switch isn’t working. Then they tend to rapidly tap up and down on the paddle which just makes things worse. It’s far from ideal.
@mcerwin I had a similar setup with similar results but instead of using Hue bulbs I was using Ikea Tradfri bulbs. Red series dimmer with nothing hooked to the load side and power wired to be constant to the lights. When pressing the switch, the delay could be up to 10 seconds before the lights turned on. But when controlling the bulbs from the Smartthings app, they were nearly instant.
My theory is this is because of the different protocols being used and the bottle neck is the translation from the hub. The switch is sending a z-wave signal to the hub which is then triggering rules to turn on the bulbs and sending a zigbee signal back out to the bulbs. Even though I used Ikea bulbs, it would be the same thing happening with Hue bulbs.
I needed a bunch more switches for the house, so I ordered a few of the kits with 4 dimmers and 2 Ilumin bulbs which are z-wave. I paired the new bulbs with the hubs and setup z-wave association between the switch and the bulbs in groups 2 and 4. Now when I press the switch, the signal goes directly from switch to bulb and bypasses the hub and all the rule logic completely. It is near instant. If there is any more delay than any of the switches I have that are directly wired, it’s not enough that I can notice it.
I haven’t tried this with Hubitat because I found everything I put onto Hubitat was processing slower than ST. I’m hoping the next version of their hub has more processing power, more ram and a stronger z-wave radio.
@MRobi Your point about the protocol translation at the hub is valid, and was something that I had considered, but I don’t have a good way to verify.
I have several of the Illumin bulbs from the BF kits as well but I haven’t used in them in this application. I noticed that when I had several of the Illumins in the same fixture I was getting a bad “popcorn effect” even with them directly associated to the switch. Since Zigbee supports the group messaging feature I don’t see the popcorn issue but I get the delay. I may have to test the Illumins again now that there are better drivers available and go with the lesser of two evils.
I started out on ST but I disliked the reliance on cloud processing. The word is that there is an updated Hubitat C-7 on the horizon that will use a newer chipset which should in theory increase performance.
There is a bit of a “popcorn effect” because each bulb doesn’t receive the signal and turn on at the exact same moment, although it’s not really noticeable unless I’m looking up at the ceiling fan. I’ll take that over a 10s delay any day LOL
I also dislike the reliance on cloud processing (which likely also added to my delay with zigbee bulbs) which is why I’m so hopeful for Hubitat. But with Hubitat I don’t like how the solution to slow downs is always “Remove all custom drivers and third party apps” or “add multiple hubs”. They have great built-in support, but there’s a reason people make custom drivers and third party apps. More power from the new device will hopefully solve a lot of those issues.