The more I read the more confused I get. If I understand the inovelli blacks and reds are mosfet right? What happens if I buy a led light that says it needs triac. Most lights don’t even specify but the ones that do all say triac. Can I use them? I can’t even find lights that say mosfet. And I know about the community bulb thing but I’m looking at lights with built in leds. Every bulb I buy sucks and I wanna try this route.
Bought em and they worked. Yay
Was going to say i have just purchased LEDs and used the swit hes and all have worked. Only one i got when on a dimmer will flicker below 50% so make it an on off and no issues. Glad it worked for you
@jj77 - Which light fixture w/ integrated LED lighting did you buy? Do you mind linking? Did it say that it required TRIAC but still work? Have you tested with a White Series by chance? I’m assuming those also use MOSFET.
@Kaleb_Inovelli - Can you share how White Series switches are supposed to work with fixtures that use integrated lights? Does the VTM31-SN use MOSFET or TRIAC?
@SHU I am not Kaleb but White Series 2-1 Switch (VTM31-SN) uses a MOSFET for its dimming functionality . MOSFETs are typically used in smart dimmers because they can handle higher frequencies and provide smoother dimming control compared to TRIACs.
I don’t know the answer to this but I’ll throw it out for whatever it’s worth.
I’ve never seen a bulb specify it needs a triac, so if someone could post a link to one, I’d love to see it.
Triacs based switches typically dim using a leading edge waveform. I’m wondering that if literature says that the bulb requires a triac, that really means it requires leading edge, not that semiconductor specifically. Maybe yes, maybe no.
But if that’s the case, Inovelli’s default to leading edge with trailing edge available via a setting.
@Lance_Inovelli - Is there a foolproof way for someone to determine whether or not a VTM31-SN will be compatible with a light fixture they see online (or in a store) before purchasing the switch and/or fixture? It doesn’t look like the compatibility app is being updated as I’m not seeing the White Series listed.
Thanks for confirming that the White Series also use MOSFET. Do you happen to know what dimming technology is in a Lutron Caseta Diva Smart Dimmer, or the Lutron Caseta Diva ELV Smart Dimmer?
@Bry - I think I’m tracking. To confirm, you’re suggesting that all Inovelli switches should be able to solve for integrated light fixtures that require TRIAC dimming (via parameter changes at the switch) since it has the necessary hardware in place to safely flip between leading or trailing edge?
You think that most integrated lighting fixtures (capable of dimming) shouldn’t require a different switch altogether based on how an Inovelli switch is designed unless it requires a special semiconductor? Are there possibly LED fixtures with embedded transformers/drivers that could be incompatible with an Inovelli, regardless of it having the capability to switch between leading/trailing?
Also, since you and @jj77 didn’t call out a specific switch series, and because the White Series User Manual has at times had incorrect info transposed from the Blue Series, do you know if the White Series Smart Dimmers (VTM31-SN) are able to swap between leading and trailing via parameter changes at the switch? If the text is correct on the manual, it’s saying that firmware 2.15 or above is needed, which the White Series aren’t at yet. If I’m reading that correctly, that would lead me to believe your suggested software solution isn’t possible yet for White Series switches.
Sort of, but maybe not that strongly. I’m wondering if the “triac required” statement you refer to really means “leading edge required”. As I mentioned, I’ve never seen that wording and I don’t have any bulbs with that requirement. If it were me and I wanted a light with that requirement, I would ask the manufacturer for clarification.
I don’t have any whites, but I think you may be correct about the copy/paste error in the Quick Tap documentation regarding the 2.15 firmware requirement. (The Blue didn’t have that on first release, hence the higher firmware requirement.) @Eric_Inovelli
Not positive but I think they use triac. As far as foolproof way to know, unfortunately no.
OP (@jj77) said they were encountering verbiage online stating a light required TRIAC. I simply chimed in because I’m trying to learn the complexities of this as well, being in a similar boat. I’ll certainly share a link to a product listing page if I come across one. I hope OP can share their findings as well…
Also, I may be off here, but I think the original Oct 2024 post was published because OP was wanting to learn how to marry up an Inovelli product (that uses MOSFET dimming) with integrated LED products (e.g. light strips, light fixtures with non-removable LEDs, etc.). I’m pointing out in case you’ve been replying from the lens that this thread was about standalone bulbs.
As for the documentation error, I guess we’ll see what @Eric_Inovelli or @Kaleb_Inovelli write back with.
Thanks, @Lance_Inovelli. Few more questions, if I may…
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Okay, I’ll try to find out what style of dimming Lutron uses and report back.
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It’s unfortunate that there’s not standardization across the lighting & switch industry. Some lighting companies have tables showing compatible switches that they’ve tested with their products, but obviously nobody is going to have Inovelli this early on, and return policies often state that once you’ve wired their product, you can’t return it. So there’s no way to test without risking the forfeiture of your funds if a product doesn’t work. I think this problem needs to be solved to help strengthen Inovelli’s market share.
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I saw on the White Series Smart Dimmer FAQ that it “…cannot be used with any sort of transformer, ballast or LED Strip that has a transformer.” and that it also “does not work with ELV, MLV lights or any low voltage lights.”. Once the On/Off Switch is released in Q3, will you effectively be sacrificing the ability to dim the light source for the ability to have switches that aesthetically look the same? Can you, @Kaleb_Inovelli, or @Eric_Inovelli pull on your experience with the Red & Blue series to answer this, or will the White be engineered differently and you’re still figuring this out? If the answer is yes, then my next question would be whether or not Inovelli plans to release a third type of dimmer switch that’s compatible with transformers, 24V light strips (e.g. dumb COB), or other types of low-voltage and ballast lighting?
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What specifically is different about the Inovelli On/Off switches that allows them to work with transformers, ballasts, LED strips, ELV/MLV lights, & low-voltage lights that the Smart Dimmer can’t achieve when configured as an On/Off switch?
The On/Off uses a relay. The dimmer still routes through the dimming circuitry even in the On/Off mode. That mode is designed to mimic an on/off for light bulbs only . . nothing more.
@SHU , @Bry pretty much summed it up. As to whether Inovelli plans to release a switch for ELV, MLV, low voltage dimming type, Eric is constantly innovating and it is really hard to say what the future holds but currently our focus is the button controller, mmwave, on/off switch, etc.
The White Series Smart Dimmers that I’m using have an audible relay as long as they’re connected to neutrals. I’ve successfully enabled and disabled that relay sound through parameter changes at the switch. Is that purely for show then even when configuring it as an on/off switch?
So you’re confirming that the upcoming On/Off White Series switch will not allow for dimming MLV/ELV, ballast, or low-voltage integrated LED lights?
An on/off switch will not allow dimming period. It doesn’t have dimming circuitry.
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It’s used in dumb switch 3 way switching. In all other modes, it’s just an audible click that does nothing. The power is always going through the dimming circuitry.
Thanks, Rohan. That’s what I assumed. Appreciate you confirming.
Got it. Good to know.