Zigbee 2-1 Switch (On/Off & Dimmer) | Project New Horizon (Blue Series)

[ecasagrande]

If you mean me, my single Inovelli Black On/Off works fine in a metal box. It’s pretty far from my other switches too, yet always works.

[stu1811]

I think @harjms is referring to the blue series. Zwave is 908.42 MHz in the USA. Zigbee is 2.4 GHz. The concern is the 2.4GHz in the metal box.

[ecasagrande]

Oh, ok. I don’t have any inovelli ZigBee devices, but I have some other ZigBee outlets that work fine.

I’ve always found ZigBee to transmit better throughout my house. I have far fewer repeaters, yet everything always works. I believe ZigBee devices are just better at acquiring signal. Maybe they use similar magic as Inovelli uses to get more range with their devices.

[jrperry]

I have one request.
I want to be able to disable the physical switch. This idea is thanks to a 2 year old that loves to play with light switches.

[stu1811]

Current dimmer lets you disable local control (protection) or press config button 8x to disable/enable. I assume the new one will too.

[jrperry]

Thanks,

Can’t wait for the new one to come out.

Now that I am ready to place my order when they make it to Canada.

[JeffersonBledsoe]

Hey @JeffersonBledsoe – we spoke with @Darwyn_Inovelli today and confirmed that this is part of the ZigBee 3.0 spec so it will be available on the switch

This is great to hear! Any chance there’s spots on the beta testing still? The blue seems to be the only switch that’s met all my requirements! I’m in the UK.

[Rxich]

The antenna is at the front of the switch, so depending the direction the signal requires to travel, I don’t know how much effect the metal box will have

[harjms]

Correct. And if the hub is behind the wall/switch? The signal will be attenuated.

[Eric_Inovelli]

Project Update: Sorry, forgot to give one last week after the call. Everything is still on track for a December release and we should have our first samples when the manufacturer returns from their holiday (they return on the 8th of October). They were trying to get it out before then, but ran into some issues.

@cndjonno

@Eric_Inovelli I have been watching the Inovelli community for over a year, I am just wanted to say thank you for such detailed and transparent answers. I am very excited about the Blue series and hope it is an overwhelming success in the market.

Thanks, we appreciate it

@cndjonno

While I assume you have many testers already, if ever need more I would be glad to help as I will be outfitting my house with Blue series everywhere.

Sounds good – when the time comes, I’ll run through the list and see where we’re at. Appreciate your willingness to help!

@ecasagrande

Add me to the list of “beta” testers. Added bonus, I’m an electrical engineer, and actually troubleshoot electronics (controls) for a living. I can promise you some actionable troubleshooting in my “challenging” environment.

Appreciate it! My dad always wanted me to be an EE (he’s one) – unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) I was born with this crazy marketing brain haha. I’ll check the list once we move closer to asking for beta testers and see where we’re at! Thanks so much for volunteering, it means a lot

@jrperry

I have one request.
I want to be able to disable the physical switch. This idea is thanks to a 2 year old that loves to play with light switches.

Great request – @stu1811 answered quicker than me (thanks!) but yes, these switches will have the ability to disable the physical switch. We’re also exploring the ability to lock the config button remotely so that no one can mess with the settings. Not sure how to execute this one, but we’ll see!

@JeffersonBledsoe

This is great to hear! Any chance there’s spots on the beta testing still? The blue seems to be the only switch that’s met all my requirements! I’m in the UK.

Awesome, the UK? Great to have you here!

I’m about to show my inner ignorant American… but aren’t the switches a different design in the UK (ie: more of a box than rectangle)? I’m wondering how you’d be able to fit our switches in your walls.

Anyway, in regards to the beta testing, when the time comes, if we have room, we’ll for sure add you to the list! Thanks as well for volunteering!

[BrenenP]

For this to decrease the delay seen with Hue bulbs, would it have to be paired directly to the Hue Hub? Or would there be performance improvements still if going through Hubitat or similar? I’d like to speed up my Hue bulbs but also want the integration with Webcore, etc via Hubitat.

[Eric_Inovelli]

@BrenenP

For this to decrease the delay seen with Hue bulbs, would it have to be paired directly to the Hue Hub?

This is my understanding, but there may be a way to, “associate” them similar to how Z-Wave works.

We’re definitely in a new territory for us with ZigBee, so there’s going to be a learning curve for us and a heavy leaning on our beta testers and the community to perfect it

But totally see the need to have the speed of Z-Wave Association (but in ZigBee) + all the advanced automations the Hue bridge won’t allow.

I’m going to have to dust off my Hue bridge and start playing with it as well. Should be fun!

Hopefully someone else more familiar with ZigBee can chime in.

[kreene1987]

Zigbee has groups as a part of it’s functionality. I use them frequently when I want multiple cans to do the same thing.

Not sure how control WITHIN the group works, but one switch can control multiple cans simultaneously in my current setup (I have one switch controlling 8 cans in a room and they are indistinguishable when changing).

Here is one of the controllers explaining this function: Groups | zigbee2mqtt.io

[BertABCD1234]

@Eric_Inovelli

here may be a way to, “associate” them

Also learning more ins and outs of Zigbee myself lately, but…

This should work via Touchlink, probably the closest thing in the Zigbee world to Z-Wave Association, and theoretically that should work even if the devices are on a different network (say, Hue Bulbs on their own network, with the Inovelli paired to your Zigbee hub like Hubitat, SmartThings, Home Assistant, etc.). Or at least that’s what the Zigbee2MQTT docs say: Touchlink | zigbee2mqtt.io. (I was thinknig of playing around with this for a bit in Home Assistant, but I settled on the built-in ZHA integration for that usage. I also primarily use Hubitat so don’t dabble in this much at all.)

That being said, I’ve only used Touchlink when the devices are on the same network and I just wanted to leave the hub out of the picture in case it was down. The only oddity I’ve noticed is that the device state does not always (ever?) get reported back to the hub like it does if you change it from the hub, at least not without a refresh. Only noticed this with Hue Bridge bulbs on a Hue Bridge network (with a Touchlinked remote that I think I had on the same network) and Home Assistant with an Ikea bulb on ZHA and an Ikea 5-button “steering wheel” remote (which is definitely on the same network), but there still seems to be a pattern.

[JeffersonBledsoe]

Zigbee has two ways of achieving this. One that is already mentioned and covered above is Touchlink, which is designed to let you communicate between devices that aren’t on the same network which are physically close to each other. Zigbee 3.0 also has ‘binding’ which is very similar but designed to let you use the zigbee network to connect two endpoints together (this supports groups and I also believe hopping between devices). For example, I’m currently using Home Assistant with Zigbe2MQTT for control of my zigbee lights, however, I also have a binding setup between my office light switch and the office lights group. This means that there is essentially no delay and the lights will continue to work even if Home Assistant or Zigbee2MQTT is offline.

Awesome, the UK? Great to have you here!

I’m about to show my inner ignorant American… but aren’t the switches a different design in the UK (ie: more of a box than rectangle)? I’m wondering how you’d be able to fit our switches in your walls.

Anyway, in regards to the beta testing, when the time comes, if we have room, we’ll for sure add you to the list! Thanks as well for volunteering!

@Eric_Inovelli I realised this just as I posted the question I’m looking to see if there’s still a reasonable way for me to still use these switches, as so far they’re the only switches I can find that aren’t battery powered, will communicate with a smart bulb, don’t use ‘Zigbee Green Power’ (which isn’t directly compatible with Zigbee 3.0) and supports Zigbee Binding. I don’t suppose you’d consider designing a switch compatible with UK square wall boxes would you?

[travellerny]

The beta list is probably already full, but I’m willing to beta test–I have a Hubitat with a Hue…and my topology approach thus far has been to link all non-bulb Zigbee devices to the Hubitat (e.g. gas leak sensors, RGBGenie remotes) and only Zigbee smart bulbs (both Hue and Linkind brands) to the Hue. All with, of course, a bridged connection setup from the Hubitat to the Hue.

UPDATE: I do have 1 RGBGenie remote touchlink associated directly to one unimportant Linkind bulb. That spot I could easily use and change around as my beta-test location

[Eric_Inovelli]

Project Update: Working samples are being sent tomorrow and should be here next week! They won’t have full firmware on them, but we can at least get a feel for how they look and feel and it will be the first indication of how they stack up against our Z-Wave switches.

Still targeting end of year for release (although personally I think that’s aggressive, but we’ll see). Once the switches arrive, and are approved, UL process can start, which is 6-8 weeks (this is why I think end of year is aggressive, but we can dream!)

[jrperry]

One question,

If the intent is to be chip… Matter certified. Why are you not choosing to use thread out of the gate?

I am not passing judgement just thinking about it the other day.

[Bry]

@jrperry

If the intent is to be chip… Matter certified. Why are you not choosing to use thread out of the gate?

Post 61 in this thread:

ZigBee Dimmer/On-Off Switch (Maycock Signature Series) | Project New Horizon (Blue Series)

Project Update: Everything is still on track for a Q4 release. We are now working on the PCB and ensuring the manufacturer fully understands all the specs so there aren’t any surprises. I’m sure there still will be, but the best we can do is minimize it. TLDR: No problem if you want a bad-a ZigBee switch. If you want a Matter switch, we are going to suggest you wait until mid-2022 to purchase as OTA is not available (you can still hard-wire update). OTA ZigBee is ok, however. There is an, “is…

[Eric_Inovelli]

Thanks @kreene1987, @BertABCD1234 and @JeffersonBledsoe for the ZigBee explanation!

@JeffersonBledsoe

I don’t suppose you’d consider designing a switch compatible with UK square wall boxes would you?

Hopefully one day! It’s definitely in our strategy – just need some capital to expand lol

@travellerny

The beta list is probably already full, but I’m willing to beta test–I have a Hubitat with a Hue…and my topology approach thus far has been to link all non-bulb Zigbee devices to the Hubitat (e.g. gas leak sensors, RGBGenie remotes) and only Zigbee smart bulbs (both Hue and Linkind brands) to the Hue. All with, of course, a bridged connection setup from the Hubitat to the Hue.

Awesome, I haven’t put together a specific list yet, but when the time comes, we’ll definitely keep you (and everyone else) in mind! It does help to have the Hue bridge

@jrperry

One question,

If the intent is to be chip… Matter certified. Why are you not choosing to use thread out of the gate?

I am not passing judgement just thinking about it the other day.

All good man! Honestly, the Thread thing has been brought up before to us and we just didn’t know much about it other than it seemed like that’s what Google used with their Nest products. Nothing against it, we just really didn’t know a lot about the protocol and were more familiar with ZigBee.

From a business case, we chose ZigBee for a few reasons:

1. It’s the largest protocol (represents about 40% of the market)
2. It’s a decent transition between what we’re already doing vs where we want to go in the sense that Z-Wave requires a hub and is incredibly advanced, whereas ZigBee can either be used with a hub like SmartThings/Hubitat/HA, but also could be directly paired to various Alexa devices
3. The biggest push for us to go ZigBee was our smart bulb mode and seeing there’s still a huge gap in the market, especially with Hue. We want to be the company that solves the Hue smart switch to smart bulb issue as there are so many ppl out there that want this integration.

Hope that helps?