Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)

[SViel]

@ddeflyer

might brute force a good presence detection

I wonder if they might interfere with each other?

[UngluedChalice]

That is something we (well, not me, but at least one Eric) will be testing during beta testing.

[Eric_Inovelli]

Project Update: We’ve received the second round of beta units with the corrections we asked for in the last round. There are still a couple things wrong with it that I’d like to see fixed before we open up tooling.

Next steps are to talk with them tomorrow (Wed) to understand if these couple issues (ground screw plate issue and diffuser issue) are due to the 3D print of the switch or what happened as they were listed on our last round of feedback.

They’ve also loaded on the firmware, so @EricM_Inovelli will be testing the initial firmware so that when we give the official beta units to the testers, it will be 90-95% complete.

[teter09]

When using these in a Multi way configuration, will all of the switches need to be mmWave models? Or will I be able to use a regular 2-1 switch and a mmWave together (same protocol of course)?

I have some multiway switches where 1 location could make great use of the motion/presence detection features, but the other would be absolutely pointless.

[stephen.brown2]

@teter09

Or will I be able to use a regular switch and a mmWave together?

I see no reason why they would all need to be mmWave, the 3-way pairing would be done with Zigbee or via the wiring.

[teter09]

I hope you are right! I just thought I would ask as sometimes different products internal workings might be different enough to not allow different smart switch models to function the same way.

[simnick]

It is a good question. But here is the main thing: You can’t directly use two 2-1 or Linuses or one and one on the same 3 way circuit. You need to use them with Aux switch, or if you want two smart switches on the same circuit, you need to bind them in software.

[teter09]

You really need to use an Aux switch? I assumed you could use only smart switches based on this link from the manual. (see option 3)

@Eric_Inovelli

Once you’ve determined your switch layout, please select from one of the underlined options below and remember it.

1. Smart Switch + Toggle Switch: One smart switch and one (or more) toggle/existing switch (one already in your wall).
2. Smart Switch + Aux Switch: One smart switch and one (or more) add-on (aux) switch (AUX01 ).
3. Smart Switch + Smart Switch: Two (or more) smart switches.

Or is Option 3 done via software and just not mentioned in the setup guide?

[Bry]

@teter09

Or is Option 3 done via software and just not mentioned in the setup guide?

Yes, option number three is done by wiring the load to the switch in the appropriate box. The other switches just get a hot and a neutral. In this configuration, the switches do not communicate via a wired connection. You have to bind them via the hub.

[MasterDevwi]

Hi @Eric_Inovelli! Were you able to resolve the issues with the 3D prints with the manufacturer? And do you still think production will happen in the April/May timeframe? I’m very excited for these switches. Thanks for all of the team’s hard work on them!

Also, if you’re able to share any details on how the mmWave sensor will work that would be awesome too.

@MasterDevwi

• Can we set a maximum range for presence detection?
• Can we block off areas of the periphery in case the sensor faces another room? I seem to recall discussion about allowing the sensor to ignore specific quadrants in a grid?
• I believe you settled on 24GHz, is that correct? I was thrilled to hear that the FOV would be 150° too.
• In testing, have you seen any issues when the sensor is facing a device that could cause interference like a computer screen or a fan? Hopefully #1 and #2 above can help solve any issues with interference at the edges of the room.
• How fast has the sensor been responding to presence so far? I’m sure this may continue to improve, but I’m just curious.

[madmojo]

Seconding the request for a timeline update. You may want to post to Indiegogo as well - I think folks may be getting restless. Personally, I’ve been holding off replacing some very laggy existing switches in various places in my home for these switches to ship. But - I may need to figure something out if this is too far away. Just needing the info…

[forbes400]

Third for the update … considering whether to order the 2-1 and pair with a battery powered motion sensor or if I should wait for the mmWave switch.

[stephen.brown2]

@madmojo

I think folks may be getting restless.

I just want to know how to get my flair for backing the indiegogo. I’ve seen others with it, but not me!

[lnjustin]

My order status page suggests Eric is just busy packaging up my new fan modules which are what I’m targeting for use with this new mmWave switch eventually!

[Eric_Inovelli]

Project Update: Well, this is not going to be a fun one to deliver, but hopefully the transparency and explanation on what’s caused/causing the delay makes sense and in the end is justified.

TLDR: Mass Production has been pushed back to July due to a couple of factors - MG24 Chips are on a backlog due to a shortage (Aqara has been buying them up and they have first priority in the market due to their size – so we’ve had to switch to the MG21), we have found out you won’t be able to upgrade from Zigbee to Matter due to the size of the new Matter stack, we’re working on Zones with the mmWave chip manufacturer (we did not have this spec’d out initially, but wanted to add it due to some limitations with ceiling fans), and, quite frankly, we’re still experiencing growing pains with the new manufacturer.

I’ll try to keep this short, but succinct as I know the TLDR was probably a punch in the face (as it’s been to us over the past couple of months trying to sort through all the challenges).

MG24 Shortage and Inability to Update to Matter

• MG24 Chip Shortage

  • Unfortunately with the success of Matter, everyone is now purchasing MG24 chips from SiLabs and there is a shortage. As we were about to place the PO for chips, the manufacturer told us they wouldn’t be available until September, which just isn’t feasible for us as the project would be 9 months past its original launch date
  • As this is a new manufacturer for us, they do not have priority in chip purchasing, so this was the best they could do.

• Inability to Update to Matter from Zigbee

  • This issue has been a real thorn in my side as we’ve been given the runaround by Silicon Labs as to whether or not we’d be able to OTA update from Zigbee to Matter. Long story short, we’ve confirmed with multiple sources that this is now not possible due to space constraints and certification issues across hubs. This put me in a hard spot because this was a major selling point for the Zigbee switches and I’m sure there are quite a few people out there who purchased the Zigbee version based on this information.

SOLUTION: In order to pull back production to July, we’ve decided to make the Zigbee version with the MG21 chip as it has plenty of room for Zigbee code and it’s what the source code given to them was. In addition, we’ve negotiated with the manufacturer to develop a Thread/Matter version at no cost (other than firmware development) using the MG24 (as the new Matter stack will not fit on the MG21). We will also allow you to change your order to Thread/Matter at no cost (as it will be a premium to Zigbee) if this is what you’d like. Please note, however, that the features will not be the same as the Zigbee version as Matter does not support everything yet. For reference, please see this article that explains the difference. We will have the same features as the upcoming Thread/Matter 2-1.

Zone Creation
One of the major concerns this entire time has been the ability for the mmWave chip to work with Ceiling Fans. Eric M and I have been testing the alpha samples and wanted to come up with some sort of solution as it just is very limiting if we were to only set a max distance of something before the ceiling fan (since that would exclude the entire room after the ceiling fan).

Unfortunately, zones are not an, “out of the box” solution with mmWave chips, so we’re having to work with the chip manufacturer to develop something that will work which has also contributed to the delay.

We won’t be able to do anything as complex as the FP2, but we should be able to do something similar to what’s posted below:

In the above picture, we should be able to exclude Zone B. Again, this is something we’re working on, so I will let you know if it changes, but for now, this is what has been promised to us as a solution.

Growing Pains with the Manufacturer
I know this one is more on us as we chose a different manufacturer for this project, so I’ll take the blame here. I didn’t anticipate the learning curve and growing pains to take this long as I’ve worked with three manufacturers over the past 7 years and usually we’re able to get in a good cadence within 5-6 months. This one has taken 9 months, but I think we’re finally at a breaking point and have found our stride.

–

All this to say, this project is a beast and I know this is the second pushback we’ve had in terms of a deadline, but in the end, I do believe this is going to be a revolutionary switch and I’m really excited about it.

I will share a video shortly of the alpha switches in action – the response time is really great!

Lastly, I will update the above timeline accordingly.

[lnjustin]

@Eric_Inovelli

Well, this is not going to be a fun one to deliver

Ouch. Not a fun one to receive either
Thanks for persisting through the troubles. I think I still would rather have this switch, despite the delay and reduced capabilities, over the FP2 to avoid the eye sore of more sensors.

[Sky320]

@Eric_Inovelli Is the z-wave in the same boat for time line?

[stephen.brown2]

Whoops. Replied before reading.

So, I just made a pre-order online. I will need to update my shipping address… and also for the indiegogo campaign.

[Eric_Inovelli]

@Sky320

@Eric_Inovelli Is the z-wave in the same boat for time line?

Yes, unfortunately. While we don’t have the same chip issues as the Zigbee one, they haven’t really progressed as much as I’d like on the Z-Wave firmware. We are targeting July as well for Z-Wave.

[Eric_Inovelli]

@stephen.brown2

So, I just made a pre-order online. I will need to update my shipping address… and also for the indiegogo campaign.

No worries, we can help. Can you open up a ticket so we can make the changes? Just shoot us your new address and we’ll update it via Inovelli. I believe you can make the change yourself in Indiegogo (I’m not sure we can do it).