3-way with no Neutral

I have a 3-way circuit that has a neutral wire only in one of the boxes. It appears to be wired like this:

Is there anyway for me to get a 2nd smart switch on the non-neutral side?

Thanks a bunch in advance for any help/advice you can offer!!

You could potentially run two dinners, but not sure why. Is the left position not a great spot for access?

I have an lzw30-sn to use on the left side with the neutral, but i wanted a switch with an LED on it for the right side. Since illuminated dumb switches are causing problems and add-on switches dont have an LED, i wanted to see if i could add another smart switch on the right side.

Ahhh, unfortunately the LZW-30 require a neutral. You could swap both for a LZW-31 (dimmer) and use without a neutral. However , the LED bars won’t sync between the two.

I do believe some people were able to get lighted dumb switches to work, but don’t quote me on that.

From what you have written it seems having the LED on the right side is really the goal.

There is a way but you will have to change some wiring and use associations.

I also think you can put a dumb switch on the left and the Inovelli on the right. Would have to think more on this if you believe its a desirable option.

Also I do not know if in an association configuration the LED bars Sync. Hopefully someone in the forum can answer this.
So Assuming the LED’s sync:
Put a scene capable device on the left it would control the bulb. Then put a matching device on the right put only supply it with line and neutral (no load connections). Associate them together. They should mirror each other.

Also I’ve not personally used associations but I’ve read that many have and with good luck.


I have a neutral on the left side, where i have the LZW30. It’s working fine. Is the solution here to have the LZW30 on the left and the dimmer on the right?

Yeah, i been trying to search to see if I can find a solution, havent had luck yet.

That is the goal, yes. What wiring would i have to change?

I want to have the LZW-30 on the left for the LED notifications.

I dont have Neutral on the right, that’s the problem.

This should do it. But remember both need to be scene capable AND I’m not sure the LED’s will Sync. You will have to find either Inovelli or another forum member who can verify the LEDs can or cannot sync.


Then you would Associate the left with the right dimmer. After that they will stay in sync when operated from either side. I’ve not personally associated a pair of Inovelli’s. I know it works but cannot help on the details. I’m sure there are other forum folks with experience with association that can help you.

BTW Association does not go through the hub. It goes directly from dimmer to dimmer so there is almost no lag.

In the above the words dimmer <—> switch are interchangeable. It makes no difference to the wiring…


Thank you so much for your help! The problem is i dont have access to the junction box from the light to the switch on the right to rewire it to have a neutral.

The Line is coming into the left switch. And then there is a romex going from the left switch that i think is going to lights (there are 6 recessed lights) then i believe a separate romex going from the lights to the right switch. I dont think i have any wires from switch to switch.

I’m ok with doing the associations, but can I add another smart switch without re-wiring the light?

@EAN2007 - I personally don’t know if you can combine the dimmer and on/off switch. @Eric_Inovelli @EricM_Inovelli Thoughts of using the On/Off switch with neutral and using dimmer without neutral on other side of 3 way switch? Maybe have to use on/off with traveler, not load?

Honestly, this is above my paygrade lol.

I’m humble enough to admit that @JohnRob understands our switches and electrical better than me so I don’t want to steer anyone in the wrong direction here by giving my opinion.

In theory (my middle-school understanding of electrical and the PCB), I would think the traveller idea should work as long as the bulb is above 25W required for the non-neutral dimmer to work.

However, the more I’m thinking about this – the smart on/off switch would essentially be the same as a dumb on/off switch in how it acts (ie: circuit is either open or closed) and that’s why we couldn’t get the dumb on/off switch to work in a non-neutral setting as if the circuit is closed, no power can trickle through to power the non-neutral switch.

So, now I’m leaning towards this will not work outside of John’s drawing as he’s using the neutral wire to complete the circuit.

How’s that for the marketing guy – basically just talk in circles and hope something sticks!

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Never say never

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I haven’t disabled the local control on the right yet, but looks like it’s not working.

When i turn off switch on the left, right switch looses power. and no switch combination turns on the lights (from either side).

I’m confused.

What device is on the left?
What device is on the right?

Are they wired as shown in the latest diagram? It requires the red wire to change from the dimmer/switch load to direct connection to ground.

If the wires exactly match your original post, the right side is powered all the time.

Perhaps the original post diagram was close but not exact. If so we’ll need to do more testing.


I have an LZW30-SN on the left and i’ve tried the LZW30 & GE 46201 on the right and i wired them per your last diagram, yes, with the common wire to the line and the other 2 to the neutral of the switch.

i cant confirm how the light fixture is wired, but the wires out of the boxes seamed to match that first picture i found from the inovelli examples. I have 3 wires coming into that right switch box: white, black and red, and the white is the one that was on the dumb switch’s black screw.

On the left, i have the red plugged into the traveler, neutral bundle into neutral, power into the line, and the other black (from the same romex as the red wire) plugged into the load.

When i turn the left switch OFF, i get no voltage on any of the wires on the right. When the left switch is ON, i get voltage out of the Black & Red on the right.

I think i found the error, i need to plug in line AND the red traveler to the Line plug of the switch on the left

On the left, i have the red plugged into the traveler, neutral bundle into neutral, power into the line, and the other black (from the same romex as the red wire) plugged into the load.

Unless I’m missing something your description does not match my 2nd diagram.

I do not know if the LZW30 is capable of being associated with another switch.

I do know the LZW30-SN is capable of association.

Keep in mind that the way John drew this out is that the relay has to be disabled on your non-load switch. I’m not sure if GE can do that.

EDIT: Never mind – there’s no load attached… duh. Sorry for the confusion.

In addition, I’m not sure the Association Tool will work with non-Inovelli/Ilumin products (I don’t have Hubitat so I can’t confirm this, but in ST that’s how it was built).

If you don’t disable the relay on the non-load switch, it may ruin the switch as well as the primary one as they were not meant to be wired together to work mechanically (only as remotes or via Association).

Yes, it can be :slight_smile:

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Ok, i think i’m close.

i plugged in the red and hot wires into the line of the left switch. Now i have power to the black and red wires on the right when the left is OFF.

When i plug Red & White into nuetral on the Right, & red into LINE: i can control the lights from the left but the switch looses power when the lights are ON.

When i plug in Red & Black in Neutral on the right and white into LINE (white was the wire that was on the black screw) : right switch stays on no matter what i do on the left, but no combination turns on the lights.

When i plug in Red & White in Neutral on the right and Black into LINE : right switch gets no power matter what i do on the left, but no combination turns lights OFF (lights stay on).