Disabling local control with an aux switch

OMG, I’m having so much fun now. I’ve relieved my Red Switches of local control. I’ve been setting up scenes for my RGB bulbs and building out my flows in node-red. It doesn’t matter which circuit the lights are on, I have complete control everywhere. I feel like anything is possible.

But… now my aux switches don’t work as expected (totally unresponsive). If I turn local control in the three way circuit back on, then they function normally. When I disable local control they become useless again. Is there a configuration setting I’m missing?

Aux switches don’t do scenes. What you are describing seems totally normal.

I’m not trying to do the scene with the aux switch. The aux switch does not function at all. It neither turns the circuit on nor off.

I thought this was an unforeseen issue when Inovelli implemented disabling local control. I think what you’re seeing is normal.

You want to turn power to the smart bulbs on and off?

Aux switch is an extension of local control.

Rounding out what they ^^^ said.

You are using smart bulbs, so you have disable local control (DLC) turn on the Inovelli, as you should. So now you have power applied full time to the bulbs.

Your bulb control is via scenes, presumably, unless they are Zwave. You are using the Inovelli as a scene controller in that configuration. The Aux cannot function as a scene controller. Nor can it tell the Inovelli to send scene commands. So basically it is working as it should/can. If you want to send scenes from the Aux, then you’ll have to swap it out for another Inovelli Red.

I don’t think anyone is following what you want exactly. You generally don’t want to turn the power to smart bulbs on and off and you don’t dim them. So, it doesn’t make sense to disable the paddle on the Inovelli from controlling the power output to the bulb but still allowing the aux switch to control the power output to the bulb.

You can use smart bulb mode without disabling local control. Then, you can dim and switch on-off the Inovelli at the paddle without the load changing, meaning the state and level is internal info. You can then follow that internal level changing and use it to control the level of the smart bulbs. Scenes could be used for color or presets, but they still can’t be done at the aux switch.

Oh boy. Let me try again.

I’m not trying to control scenes from the aux switch.

I want to be able to use an aux switch in a 3-way while the Inovelli has local control disabled. Is this possible?

I gather it is not, unless I have Red’s on both sides of the three way. Then it would work. Correct?

What type of bulbs are you using, Zwave or Zigbee?

No, it’s not possible. As I posted, an aux switch extends the local control the switch paddle gives. No local control = aux switch doesn’t do anything.

Zigbee

It makes sense now. I’ll need to figure out if I can do it with secondary Inovellis. That should work, right?

Yes. You won’t be doing anything differently than with the first Inovelli.

Ok. Now I understand that the Aux switch is functioning exactly like a dumb switch. It’s not sending feedback to the smart switch but rather it is switching power to the circuit.

If that is true, then what is the use case for using an Aux switch instead of a dumb switch in a three way circuit? I’m sure I’m missing something obvious, but I don’t see it.

Aux switch allows people to dim up and down unlike a dumb switch in a non SBM setup and obviously local control enabled.

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The dumb switch actually will override the Inovelli and cause it to cut power to the wired load even though DLC is enabled. An Aux won’t do that.

Plus if it’s mated with a dimmer, you can dim the wired load, which you can’t do with an Aux switch, obviously.

You still haven’t explained what you’re trying to do…

A second Inovelli in a 3-wire is wired to line and neutral only and then typically associated with the first switch. It has no load connection so it can’t directly switch the load. OK, you could probably wire it so the location where you want to be able to switch the load has the load connected to the Inovelli and the other location has an Inovelli that has power only and can only work as a scene controller.

As per responses above, the aux switch does not function exactly like a dumb switch. The aux switch signals back to the Inovelli and will dim or turn it on and off (if local mode isn’t disabled).

A dumb switch could do what you want. It will switch the power regardless of the Inovelli settings. But, it can’t control dimming.

Ultimately, I was hoping to achieve scene control with smart bulbs on a three way circuit.

Originally, I had the Red switch and a dumb switch working perfectly together just like a 3 way circuit should work normally.

Remove the three way from the discussion for now. I have a Red series switch connected to ceiling pots containing RGB bulbs. With local control enabled, I switch the circuit ON and OFF. If I disable local control then I have more scene options. eg, one tap up turns on the lights (via a scene), one tap down turns off the lights (via a scene), multiple taps activates various scenes etc.

If we have a properly configured 3-way circuit with local control enabled, then I can switch the circuit ON and OFF from either end regardless of the other position. If local control is disabled then I have the scene options on the Red switch but the Aux switch becomes a dummy.

What I wanted was for the Aux switch to be able to turn on or off the lights. I mistakenly thought that with local control enabled that the Aux switch was sending some signal back to the Red switch and the Red switch was controlling the circuit. I assumed the same would be true for when local control is disabled but I see now that this would have to be accomplished by activating a scene. It took a moment for me to understand that and it makes sense that this is the explanation.

What I will need to do, if I understand everything correctly, is to replace the Aux with another Red switch and configure it as local control disabled and use scenes.

Thanks everyone for the education. I think everything is clear now.

Yep, I think you have it. The problem with what you were trying to do involved cutting power to the bulbs, which you should never do. Once the power is cut to the bulbs, they can no longer talk to the hub, so their status won’t be correct. Think about this. Turn the bulbs on and look at what the hub is reporting . . it’s on, of course. Now cut power to the bulbs and see what the hub is reporting. At least initially, it will still be reporting them as on because you cut power to the bulbs and now they can’t talk to the hub. Eventually the hub will report them offline, but that’s worthless.

So yes. Add another Inovelli. Keep it simple. Send scenes from both.

Yes, you need Inovelli switches everywhere. You don’t want to switch power to the lights from the dummy or aux switch because then they have no power and when you tap up once on the Inovelli to turn them on they can’t turn on because they have no power.

That’s pretty much how the aux switch works. But, as I first posted, the aux switch only does physical or local control and not scenes. So, tell the Inovelli to disable physical or local control the aux switch becomes useless just like you found out.