Flickering/Glowing when Off - Red Series 2-1

Switches General Discussion
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#1

I installed the first red 2- in- 1 dimmer and it is almost perfect - not flickering below 30%
However, I am observing the same issue like with Blue - when dimmer is in “off” state, I still see glow of the LED light

(IMG 1472 - YouTube)

What settings can fix that?

Thanks
Vladi

Z-Wave 800 Series 2-1 Switch (On/Off & Dimmer) | Project Phoenix
#2

Moved to a new topic so we can troubleshoot.

Can you let me know more about your setup?

  • Single-pole or multi-way?
  • If multi-way, are you using a dumb or aux switch?
  • Neutral or non-neutral?
  • What type of bulbs are those (I’m assuming LED, but I want to verify)?
  • Do you know the name brand?

@EricM_Inovelli - can we work with Sven on this one? I’ve actually never seen this.

Edit: If this is single-pole, can you try setting parameter 22 to Single-Pole Full Sine Wave (3)?

If it isn’t single pole, can you still try just to see if that fixes the issue of the light turning off. We’ll have to see what to do to get that to work in 3-Way but it would be nice to just verify the light fully turns off.

#3

Checked both - Single-pole and multi-way - same result

Checked both - same result (i already went thought all these setting with Eric_M regarding Blue 2-in-1)

Checked both

I checked 3 different types (they are all 5-6" retrofit LEDs)
Currently installed in the kitchen - 5 lights connected to 1 dimmer

Green Creative 5/6" 12 Watt Dimmable LED Retrofit Downlight - 3000K - 840 Lumens - 120V

But I checked others with the same results:
-Hallo #1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FKQZDPS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

-Halo #2
HALO RL56129S1EWHR Selectable CCT Baffle Trim, White

-Amico

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BQM7QWHM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I need to clarify a bit:
I was playing with all these different LED lights when I was trying to reduce flickering at levels <40% with Blue 2.18 Rev. In addition to that I saw glow when switch was “off”. When I replaced Blue with the new Red 2-in-1, flickering gone completely, except glow when switch is “off”

I am going to do more testes today.
Unfortunately I need total darkness to see this behavior, so will do it after sunset

Vladi

#4

Did not want to wait for sunset :slight_smile:
This is what I checked:

  1. I pulled the switch out of the wall (don’t worry, I used breaker in electrical panel during this operation) and measured voltages with the multimeter:

a) Voltage between Line and Neutral is 124VAC
b) Voltage between Neutral and GND is 0V (just checking :slight_smile: )
c) Voltage between Neutral and Load (with switch in “off” sate) is 29VAC :dizzy_face: :thinking:
d) Voltage between Neutral and Traveler is 68VAC :weary: :astonished:

  1. I disconnected LED from Load terminal and disconnected traveler wire:

a) Voltage between Line and Neutral is 124VAC
b) Voltage between Neutral and GND is 0VAC
c) Voltage between Neutral and Load (with switch in “off” sate) is 83VAC :thinking::thinking:
d) Voltage between Neutral and Traveler is 53VAC :weary: :astonished:

That is really surprise. That should not be a normal situation…am I wrong?

Performed factory reset:
In switch mode in “off” position 0VAC
At the moment I changed to “dimmer” mode - 83VAC with no load connected

Vladi

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#5

The voltage is normal. I had the same concerns and got similar measurements on one of the old basic black series switches. You probably need to install a bypass, which is what I did to eliminate the off glow.

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#6

Not sure I understand - output voltage of 83 VAC @“off” state is normal?
Can you please elaborate more about by-pass?
Any of my previous dimmers did not manifest this phenomenon

Vladi

#7

It didn’t used to Google well but it does now. Search for smart switch bypass capacitor and there are some great technical explanations. It isn’t dangerous and only extremely small amount of load are required to eliminate it.

#8

I thought bypass capacitors and “extremely small amount of load” issues were only relevant to no-neutral installations. Are you saying that, even when configured to use a neutral wire, these dimmers are leaking power when turned off, and therefore resulting in more power consumption than only what is required to operate the zwave radio and the led? If so, I find that a bit concerning, I wonder how much this adds up to in annual power consumption being wasted in an installation of 50-75 dimmers.

#9

Your follow-on is correct. All smart dimmers leak to some extent, perhaps some more than others. Compound that with induced voltage in some cases. While it is uncommon, there are users that have resolved their neutral-installation glowing issue through the use of a bypass, as some bulbs excite at a very low level.

That’s been discussed in the past and generally speaking, the answer is “not much”. There is a thread discussing that here a few years ago, I think.

2 Likes
#10
  1. All my switches have Neutral connection.
  2. I never experienced “glow” at “off” state with any of my dimmers before: Insteon, Zooz, Aeotec and Lutron RadioRA2. Granted, I never measured voltages at output, because I did not have a reason to do so. I really do not want to go the path like before: "probably Inovelli dimmers are not for you, they are the best in Universe, but you need to have special set-up etc…etc). I just want to make it work without all these work-arounds, if possible)
  3. I checked some of other (Blue 2-in-1) and measured much lower voltage (in a range of 10 Volts) @ output in “off” state
  4. I would prefer to wait for @Eric_Inovelli and @EricM_Inovelli response. If THE ONLY way is to add capacitor - I would like to hear form manufacturer exactly what is the procedure and capacitor to use (capacitance, type of capacitor)
#11

I have all of my switches installed in a neutral configuration and have the glow issue on two. One is a black series switch with a relay, and another is a red series 2 dimmer. It’s all about how low of a voltage your LEDs can operate at and at how low a load they illuminate at. The string lights on my back patio for instance seem to illuminate (barely) at somewhere in the single digit milliwatt range.

They sell a bypass in the store (Aeotec Bypass – Inovelli) but interestingly I don’t see it talked about in my brief glance through the official documentation.

#12

Thanks a lot. $15 - holly molly :rage:

#13

Jasco has a cheaper one.

#14

Also it’s not just Inovelli switches. I have outdoor lighting (string light connected to outlets). The outlets are controlled via a dumb switch, not dimmer. I have 6-7 bulbs with a slight illumination to them. The kicker is they never used to illuminate until I swapped out the gfci breaker. Goes to show you that even the tiniest amount of leak can cause a led to become excited.

#15

Can you send link on Jasco
Never saw issue like that before. I checked soo many different LED downlight for cans, mainly from flickering perspective. Decided to keep Green Creative 5/6" 12 Watt Dimmable LED Retrofit Downlight because it was flickering less on Blue 2-in1 with Rev2.14
Go figure…
Should keep Halo…but they were flickering on Blues below 40%

#16

Ordered this one
https://www.amazon.com/Direct-Wire-Enbrighten-Jasco-Honeywell-52327/dp/B08ZJQV7W2/ref=asc_df_B08ZJQV7W2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=532923056828&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6522331522301164935&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031905&hvtargid=pla-1432035968118&psc=1

It comes tomorrow, but I am leaving for business trip overseas tomorrow morning, so will check after 2 weeks

#17

Yep. I was about to send you the Amazon link as the Jasco site is OoS.

#18

I saw it is OoS in Jasco, but found in Amazon (probably x2 price)

Just wondering, why not to include it in the BOM of the switch in a first place. It would be cents is it is for PCB application

…but I maybe wrong.

#19

It needs to be located at a location where there is a neutral and a load (downstream of the switch). Most of the time, it is needed in non neutral environment so having it in the switch wouldn’t help that situation. It would help your situation (which appears to be less common).

#20

Hmmm…I feel so special :slight_smile:
First with Juno cans MR16 LEDs with Blues (buzzing with trailing edge) and now “glow” with Neutral and regular LEDs

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