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"ghost" power with Red Dimmers and Switches

I’ve just installed my first Inovelli switches. Two Red Dimmers and two Red Switches.
On both of the dimmers, I have a small amount of power lighting my LED overheads when the switch is “off”. It’s very low, but it’s there. When I power them down, they dim all of the way off, then after a brief second or so I notice they come back up to a very dim level. I’ve adjusted the lowest level in the Hubitat device settings and I’ve tried to adjust this, but nothing seems to help. I also have one Red on/ off switch controlling an outlet that has a string of LED lights plugged in. Again, when the switch is “off”, the string of lights is very dimly lit.
I have a neutral wire set up. I have the same LED’s on other smart dimmers throughout the house, GE and Lutron, and I have never experienced this phenomenon before.

Any suggestions?

I can understand how a dimmer might leak a bit of voltage and require a bypass, but the switch has a relay which should make and break power. Is the switch a 2 or 3-way?

No, all of these dimmers and switches are single-pole. It’s gotta be the switch because I have these same exact overhead dimmers on GE and Lutron smart switches… some single pole and some 3 and 4 way switches and I do not have this issue anywhere else.
I love these Red dimmers and switches! …Except for this issue. I’d love to get it resolved. I thought about it being a wiring issue on my part, maybe mixing up the line and load or something, but I don’t think I would have made a mistake on every Inovelli switch that I’ve installed. It’s gotta be an issue with the switches themselves somehow bleeding a small amount of power to the lights/ outlets.

Hey @BranDot - can you tell me what bulbs they are on the dimmer(s) and the string lights? Make/Model would help too if you could.

Do you have a volt meter? Pull the one of the switches (not dimmers) and remove the load conductor. Measure between the neutral screw and the load screw and see if you have voltage.

I don’t have a volt meter, just a voltage tester.

The string lights are Fullbell globe string LED lights. They aren’t anything fancy or high quality, just something that was cheap on Amazon and gives the room some ambiance. I never had a problem with them before when they were on a dumb switch.
The overhead lights are LED “puck lights”. I’m not sure of the brand, I’d have to pull one off of the ceiling to check. They were installed by the builder when the house was built a couple of years ago. If you need the brand, I’ll check tomorrow during daylight when I can cut power but still see what I am doing.

Thanks

So I’m focusing on the switches because those are make and break relays. A voltage leak would be abnormal, but since you don’t have a meter, lets try something else.

@JohnRob - there was a thread a bit ago where we worked with a guy that had a switch on a floor receptacle. Ultimately, he got it to work after plugging in a bypass for testing. I couldn’t find that thread. Do you remember if that was on a switch or dimmer, neutral or not?

@BranDot For testing, on the switch (not dimmer) controlling the receptacle, can you plug in something else like a lamp with an incandescent bulb. The turn the switch off and see if the led string behavior changes.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post where there is a dim light issue with a switch, although I could be wrong. Dimmers, yes, but that’s another issue. In some cases, a bypass will resolve this.

I don’t recall exactly (and also could not find the post) but I recall it was a ground but did not report the state exactly.

I would expect any leakage of the switch is due to the power measurement circuitry however this is a guess at best.

John

So I tried plugging a lamp with CFL bulbs into the outlet. I actually plugged it into an extension cord that the LED string lights was on as well so both devices were being powered by the outlet switch. With the lamp plugged in, the string lights go off fully. I suspect because the lamp is pulling some power even when off? But, if I unplug the lamp, the string lights go back to being on dimly. If I have the string lights set to flash, they actually flash while “off”, just at a dim level.

I think your suspicions are correct. There have been a number of issues solved here by installing a bypass, even in situations where the official documentation does indicate it’s use. When you added the CFL to the receptacle, you simulated using a bypass. So you might consider adding that at the receptacle.

It seems that there is some LED weirdness that factors in with Inovelli switches and dimmers.

You can try the same thing with your dimmers. Add a bulb that will draw significantly more power than the LED and see if that fixes the issue.

I’ve been having this same problem with a red series switch and now with a dimmer I just installed. It was discussed at length in this thread.

If I need a switch and a bypass or I need to use incandescent bulbs for every Inovelli switch, I’m actually saving money to just buy Homeseer switches instead because I don’t have these issues with them.

Neutral or non-neutral installation?

An Inovelli red series + a bypass is about $54. The Homeseer 200+ is $60 . . .

Both are neutral installations.

I’ve had this same issue and was able to fix it.
My issue was from the Neutrals. Whoever it was before me that wired all the existing switches in that GangBox twisted all the “whites” together.
The Problem is that there was more than one circuit feeding into that GangBox. The backfeed was coming from another circuit.
I don’t know if that’s the same in your case… IF you have to flip off more than one breaker to kill all the lights you can turn off some that GangBox then chances are you are running into the same problem.

Background…
Circuit 1:
From panel to switch (hot1-120V) from switch(on-hot1-120V) to light (hot1-120V) from light back to switch (neutral1 <120V).
Note: the only time Neutral 1 COULD actually be 0V is when the switch or light is OPEN

Circuit 2:
Same as above (but with neutral2 and so on)

So If you have neutral1 and neutral2 tied together, when Circuit 2 is ON the neutral is not 0V but something <120V. So that voltage from Circuit 2 is backfeeding into the switch on Circuit 1.

I hope that helps. :slight_smile:

Ok there. I think the Load has to be in the same box as the Homeseer as well. Don’t use them, but that’s what the documention seems to indicate.

That’s interesting. Back at the box all of the neutrals SHOULD be combined anyway, so that’s very interesting…

Don’t always assume that. With ARCI being more and more common, the neutrals go back to the circuit breaker vice neutral bus bar/ground bar.

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Nope. Only neutrals from the same circuit should be joined together. If there are two circuits in the box then there should be two neutral bundles. There are a number of reasons for this. @harjms touched on one of them. Just because they’re all electrically connected at the panel doesn’t mean they can be joined together elsewhere.

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Excuse my ignorance but what do you guys mean by adding a bypass?

My neutrals are all on the same breaker as far as I can tell. Like I said, I have the same LED ceiling lights in every room of my home and have successfully used both GE and Lutron switches with them. They do not have this “ghost” power issue. I install 2 Inovelli dimmers and 2 Inovelli switches and they all have the same “ghost” power issue. I’m no expert but to me, this points to an issue with the Inovelli switch. Am I missing something?