An alternative: would it be possible for the existing hardware to have its firmware modified so that there are two different inclusion procedures, one for “regular” pairing and one for secure (S0) pairing? This is an approach used by some other devices that only support S0 to allow some control over how they pair if the hub otherwise doesn’t. For example, on my Zooz ZEN15 smart plug, I think it’s three taps on the button for regular pairing or a long hold for secure. I know the bulb is literally just physically cutting power once for anything right now, so that poses a problem together with the lack of on-device buttons, but maybe there’s something…
In the meantime, these should be usable on a Hubitat C-7 by using a secondary controller to include them instead. Staff just added a note that they don’t recommend these on (actually officially don’t consider them compatible with) the C-7 hub, but this is a workaround a few people have used for these and a few other devices that seem to be problematic with S0.
Isn’t the certification only required if you ship the bulbs with S2 support? You could always provide a beta firmware that adds S2 support instead? Granted there is likely a limit to how much you could do that without making them mad.
When I pair the Inovelli Red switches, I typically select all S0, S1, and S2. So I think that is what is occurring. It would be nice if the switches could operate at both S2 and S0. So when you create an association you could select S0 for the smart bulbs. But allow S2 for the switch to hub communication. Is that even a possibility?
Is the Inovelli team able to put pressure on Hubitat to fix it’s communication problem with S0, and specifically the Inovelli bulbs? Can there be a big announcement from either that the S0 communication has been corrected? Until then I cannot use the Inovelli bulbs and my assumption is any S0 zwave only device?
so, quick question here… please help … got my lzw36 installed today. it only uses one bulb and of course i got an illumin bulb to go with it. everything is working as intended, using your drivers. when I press the light button it kills power to the bulb… wich parameter disables the bulb relay?.. after that is accomplished… i am fairly experienced in associating bulbs with your other switches but this one… is gettin to me… do in associate the bulb with the parent device?.. if sonhow would it know wich button will do the dimming ect.
Could you expand on this? I haven’t experimented (nor followed the Hubitat forums as closely as I should’ve) with this. Would be great to have a workaround!
Yes, definitely – this is something we’re trying to get for everyone. The problem is there seems to be limited space on the 500 Series chip and from what the engineers are telling us, the new SDK would require too much space as there are millions of colors (or at least that’s how I’m interpreting it). Here’s the thread for reference:
To be honest, this is always the pushback we get (limited space) – however, in doing some searching, it appears that all RGBW Z-Wave bulbs were only S0 (Aeotec, Hank, Zipato).
We’ll continue to follow up here as this is definitely important.
This would definitely be cool – @EricM_Inovelli – is this possible? My guess is probably not.
I wish – I love the guys over there and they’ve done an incredible job, but man, everything worked fine on my C5, but the C7 at my house with the ilumin bulbs just does not work well at all. Idk what happened as they work fine on SmartThings. Possibly the 700 Series SDK that they used. Honestly not sure.
You can still use them – it just will not be reliable in my experience. For example, I have 3 ilumin bulbs outdoors and I’d say 80% of the time they fail to turn on/off during scheduled times. I had to write multiple rules for them to work – even then, it works maybe 75% of the time. However, the association with my indoor switch works perfectly.
I have four indoor bulbs around my TV that when I press the config button (which should allow for all 4 bulbs to turn on to a random color) – 99% of the time all four do not turn on and it’s random. It’s really weird bc the color staging works, but the bulb will not turn on until I do it manually in the app.
But then I have two bulbs in my bedroom that use the same exact scene (ie: press config button and they both turn on) and that works 100% of the time.
So, idk what’s going on. Bobby from HE has been awesome to work with, but I think we just came to the conclusion that they just don’t play nice anymore, which kind of sucks bc that was the entire selling point of the bulbs and our switches (that they work seamlessly together).
Certainly! If you press the config button 8x, it will disable the switch (LED bar should flash Red) – note: this is for the on/off and dimmer switches – fan/light switch instructions below.
Honestly, I would be good with a firmware version removing S0 support. Don’t get me wrong S2 support would be awesome, but that’s a battle for another day.
I’m guessing the unreliable bulbs are paired as S0. I got lucky and had two bulbs pair without S0, and they didn’t give me much trouble. That being said I migrated all my bulbs back to my C4 hub pending a firmware update. I would like to move them back to the C7 at some point when I can pair them without S0.
Sure! Basically, it’s just joining a secondary controller to Hubitat (I think some people have done this for firmware updates instead of using the stick as a primary controller for its own network, though the stick as primary is probably a more popular setup and is what Inovelli documented last time I checked). Z-Wave PC Controller and most popular Z-Wave USB sticks (Zooz, Aeon, Linear/Nortek/GoControl, or SiLabs themselves) are easy/popular options. With those, it would be something like…
Plug a new or newly reset Z-Wave USB stick into the PC (i.e., don’t use one with an existing Z-Wave network on it; PC Controller can “reset” the stick if needed) and make sure Z-Wave PC Controller can see it.
Put Hubitat into Z-Wave Inclusion mode.
Put Z-Wave PC controller into “Classic Learn Mode” via the button labeled the same in the network management interface. (Other learn modes may work too, but this one should if you’re in range of the hub.) If you are prompted for S2/S0 grants on Hubitat, I recommend unchecking everything (i.e., no security). You should get a device for the stick on Hubitat. The “Device” driver it will likely pair with is fine, and you can name/label the device whatever you want; you won’t really do anything with this on Hubitat.
To pair the bulb, “Add” should work if the bulb is in range of the stick, but “NWI” or “Network Wide Inclusion” should, too. I seem to recall not seeing much feedback in PC Controller when all was done, so I just waited a long time (several minutes), after which the bulb should appear in “Z-Wave Details” on Hubitat and be automatically “discovered” as a device (you won’t see that happen; it just will).
Some people recommend un-pairing the Z-Wave stick from Hubitat before removing it from the PC or un-powering it to prevent problems (so you may want to tackle all your “problem devices” at the same time), basically the opposite of step 2 and 3.
I’m a little rusty on exactly what you see during the last couple steps, but I think that’s about right.
Lol you read my mind – this won’t work either as our switches would still pair as secured. The only option would be to have alt firmware for both the switch and bulb with no security.
Technically the user could choose no security when including the device into Hubitat (the prompt that pops up). That would make the non-S0 bulb compatible with the non-secure switch.
For other hubs we could add a special button sequence to initiate non-secure, S0, or S2 inclusion. Default would be 3x press the config button. Then something like hold the up button and 3x press the config button for S0 and hold the down button and 3x press the config button for non-secure.
Can we add this to the ever growing list lol? I think we could at least do it easily on the Fan/Light as that’s 700 Series. The Dimmer, On/Off will be a challenge I would imagine? Although, I guess S0 and S2 are already built in on these, so it would just be putting some code to tell the switch to use one or the other, right?
Actually, because the switches support S2 you have the option what (if any) security level to use when including them. So it’s actually super easy to pair the switches with no encryption. Because the bulbs only support S0 they pair without a prompt.
Yeah, I know. It is something that I will add and make sure to add it on products in the future. This option would be great for hubs that don’t let you customize the security.
If this question has been answered already, apologies for my failure to find it…
What would be the correct way to set up virtual 3-way control of Z-wave bulbs?
I have Z-wave association based control (groups 2 and 4) working for a single dimmer with some bulbs, but the next area to get moved over to this is a couple of LZW31-SN’s controlling some LZW42’s.
Found my answer in another thread…putting it here in case someone else needs it. I don’t have Z-wave bulbs here yet but I’m assuming I’ll just need to add groups 2/4 associations to one of the dimmers when that happens.
To clarify, I want to associate both dimmers with each other with groups 3 and 4, then I want to associate one dimmer to the lights with groups 2 and 4. Right?
A different question - I associated the two dimmers with each other in groups 3 and 4, then I updated firmware on the two switches to 1.48/1.41. Association from physical presses seems to work, but if I turn the switch “on” or “off” via Hubitat, the other one doesn’t follow. Is this expected? I thought association still worked even with on/off from Hubitat prior to the firmware update, but I’m not 100% certain.
For which groups, why group 3 to the bulbs? That seems conflicting with the guidance at the beginning of this thread (groups 2 and 4). I’m super new to this so would love to understand.
For the other thing, I redid the associations and it didn’t help. I’ll try excluding and re-including the dimmers and see if that sorts it.
Edit: to clarify a little further there is no “load” connected anywhere. Those terminals on the dimmers are empty and the bulbs are hardwired to power.
… got my lzw36 installed today. it only uses one bulb and of course i got an illumin bulb to go with it. everything is working as intended, using your drivers. when I press the light button it kills power to the bulb… wich parameter disables the bulb relay?.. after that is accomplished… i am fairly experienced in associating bulbs with your other switches but this one… is gettin to me… do in associate the bulb with the parent device?.. if sonhow would it know wich button will do the dimming ect.
