Non-contact sensor:
Power on 2-wire white
No power on 2-wire black
Meter
120v from 2-wire white to ground
0v from 2-wire black to ground
120v from 2-wire white to 2-wire black
Well thatās interesting. Was this basement wiring added as part of a remodel? Was it maybe done by a homeowner and not an electrician?
That is not a non-neutral. If that was a non-neutral, you would not have 120V between the black and the white. The problem is that the white is hot.
While the white being hot is not in and of itself incorrect because there is no code requirement for colors in that regard, no one that knows what theyāre doing would wire it that way. So this raises other questions about what you have going on there.
Do you have any idea where that 2-wire is feeding from? If you think you can find that box, I would open it up and look at it. This could be a junction box, a switch box or a receptacle box.
Otherwise, I think I would call an electrician and have them just do a general check out to make sure that things are wired safely.
There is a possibility that the black is making its way back to neutral by going through the lights, which could also explain the 120V. But as you pointed out, you donāt see a hot feed from the lights, so that really makes me wonder.
If you do wind end up having someone come out, post back so we know how this winds up.
Thank you for all the time youāre putting into this.
I just double checked with the meter to confirm 120v from white to black on the 2-wire. Itās indeed 120v.
My guess is that the there is a junction somewhere between the basement switch and the basement light that is putting hot on white from the panel to the switch and then taking the black from the switch and using it to feed the light. Unfortunately itās all behind drywall so I donāt have much hope in finding it.
Are they allowed to hide a junction box in a wall or should I be able to find any junction box that might exist?
Iām disappointed that we havenāt solved the problem. I was so excited to do the re-wire to make the lights powered all the time (based on your earlier recommendation). Bummed that this isnāt the solution.
I guess Iāll keep thinking about it and try to figure out what to do. If something occurs to you, please let me know.
Code does not ever allow concealing any junction boxes (such that they are no longer accessible), so while a pro wouldnāt ever do that, you never know what a homeowner or hired hack might do ā unfortunately, that could be anything.
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Iām just not 100% sure about 120V across the two conductors if itās a non-neutral. My first thought is you should not have that voltage there, but theoretically the black could make its way to neutral going through the lights somehow. Iāve just never tested it to give you an absolute answer.
I agree with you about the junction box. Although it could be a switch box or receptacle box as well. If it is a junction box, code requires them to be accessible. That doesnāt mean you canāt hide it behind an access panel or underneath a fixture, but you have to be able to get to it in some fashion.
That being said, there have been plenty of times that inaccessible junction boxes have been discovered during renovations.
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Got it. Thank you. Iām the third owner of the house. I think the wiring is original, but I donāt have a way to know that for sure. Iāll give it some thought and figure out how to proceed.
Iām open to any ideas that occur to you.
Thank you!
I think I found the junction box.
Circuit 8 from the generator sub-panel has:
- Basement stairs light (3-way switch)
- Smoke detectors
- Doorbell
This junction box has a white and black tied together.
With a non-contact tester I confirmed power present when circuit 8 on and power not present when circuit 8 off.
The yellow-wire nut black/black has power when the basement 3-way switch is on and doesnāt have power when itās off.
I think I need to re-wire this so that the 2-wire to the switch gets hot and neutral and the 2-wire to the lights gets hot and neutral.
Is that correct?
Is there anything I should be careful about or test to ensure itās all done right?
Ideally, yes, get a hot/neutral over a 2-wire to the Inovelli switch.
But youāre are going to have to draw the whole thing out to make sure you have enough Romex going to the right spots. There is a reason that this was wired as a switch loop, and thatās usually to save on an additional Romex.
The problem is that in the Inovelli box, you only have a 2-wire and a 3-wire. The 3-wire goes to the other box. That leaves the 2-wire, which probably goes to that J-box. You need a load wire, and your problem will be trying to figure out how to get a Romex that feeds the lights to the Inovelli box.
It all works! All the romex lines are now labeled so 10 years from now Iāll remember whatās going on.
From the J-box I ran hot and neutral to the 3-way. Thatās wired to LINE and NEUTRAL on the Inovelli switch.
Also from the J-box I ran hot and neutral to the lights. They are powered all the time.
The 3-wire runs from the Inovelli switch to the Aux switch carrying neutral (white) and traveler (red). The black is unused with a wire nut and tape.
I removed the bypasses I had installed.
The Inovelli switch is in SBM and configured to work with the Aux switch. I set up a Zigbee binding with the switch and the lights. Itās all working perfectly!
I would have never figured this out had you not been so patient to walk me through it. THANK YOU! The joy youāve given me is priceless. It was confusing at times, but it was a good reminder to me to persevere and think it though.
THANK YOU!
John
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My pleasure!
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