Here’s the feedback I can come up with. Most of it is same as have already been said. I’ll try to be as concise as possible with pictures for clarity.
The text “North american video shown for context” can be slightly improved for clarity.
For example it can have a disclaimer star and look somewhat like “*Video of North American switch shown for feature showcase”
The following text “If using Smart Bulb Mode in a multi-way setting, you will need to purchase an Aux Switch (“dumb” switches will not work).” could be improved with a disclaimer that the EU Aux switch will come if the crowdfund of the 240v switch is succesful.
Picture of what’s in the box needs a new sketch of the EU switch instead of the US switch. And preferably a sketch that shows no faceplate.
4a. Info-popups for the switch would be nice to have a 4th one explaining single-tap for up and down press. Mostly because unlike the US switch the EU switch is flat so it’s not obvious on the picture you can press on top and bottom for different actions.
4b. The picture showing of the different features here should show the product without the faceplate, to make it more obvious that the faceplate is not included (as answered in the pack)
I’m excited the order availability is getting closer and closer. I just bought a Nanoleaf Essentials Downlight to try out RGBW downlights in the smaller of my two toilets. To get a nice red nightlight to avoid waking up. And that is Matter over Thread but the dimmer I already had doesn’t work with a smart bulb so now I no longer only want the Inovelli White Switch but now I need it more haha, so it becomes guest-friendly
Hi, living in Czech Republic and recently bought a new flat. I’m planning to make a smart home here and I’m really thrilled about this switch as a smart bulb mode is an absolute must for me and I was shocked how few switches with this capability there are. Generaly I really like the design you came up with.
Couple of questions from me:
I picked up Homey Pro as the hub. I was able to find some information that Inovelli app for Homey is in the works, will the EU switch be supported? Any news about the app?
Is there any way, any combination of settings that would allow this switch to operate exterior shutters?
I didn’t realise that you can press on top and bottom separately. It’s not clear from the button design. Not sure how everyone else feels but I would suggest that the button shouldn’t be completely flat. Maybe slight rocker style or some kind of design on top and bottom to indicate it can be pressed.
The current design looks like the aqara switches which can only be pressed on the bottom.
I imagine all your testing will be done in the US on a bench at voltage and frequency but if any beta testers are needed then sign me up electrical engineer with experience installing domestic electrical / smart switches, running home assistant with a zigbee coordinator and also thread / matter through other hubs.
Very keen for a switch with a built in mmWave sensor for every room.
We’re planning the electric wiring of our new home and it turns out, that about 80% of switches where i planned to install an Inovelli dimmer will either have to be 3-way (2 switches) or 4-way (3 switches).
So not being able to connect dumb switches turns out to be a real bummer for me.
I’m not sure that i’m willing to replace every switch in the house. Sadly I’m leaning more towards installing some simple Shelly-style in-wall dimmers now.
Any updates on the release of this yet? As much as I love the idea of the built in LED indicator and shortcut buttons I’ve just seen that Aqara are soon to be launching a 2 gang, no neutral, dimmable wall switch.
Am I right in thinking the 2 gang is even further off than the initial release and could be years down the line?
Hey all – quick update here. I’ve been working tirelessly on getting the ducks in a row and it’s been a rollercoaster.
Short version: I think I’ve finally found a path forward and have a call today to confirm.
Long version: The EU seems to be like our California on steroids with red tape and regulations and the last thing I want to do is launch a product and then either get shut down or lose all of our profits paying fees or losing out on VAT, shipping, etc.
My initial thought was to partner with a distributor over there and we had one in mind that we’ve been working with on a different project, but they’ve been pretty unresponsive and my gut tells me that it would be a disaster in the long-run to work with them, so I had to scrap that idea. It’s still my backup plan if things fall though, but I couldn’t, in good faith, put all my eggs in that basket. So, that led me down a path to work with various smart home distributors out there – the problem was that they didn’t have any interest in a single SKU right now and I couldn’t give them a solid answer on estimated volumes, so it likely just wasn’t worth their time.
Which brought me back to square one… trying to do this ourselves.
Collecting and remitting VAT seems easy on paper, but the practice of it was a real pain with huge consequences if not done correctly, so I thought all was lost until I stumbled across a program that Shopify offers where they will be responsible for collecting and remitting VAT on our behalf (for a fee). Great.
From there, we just needed a reputable fulfillment agency and again, most of them wanted to see a large volume of orders and I couldn’t promise them anything right now as I just don’t know what the yearly volumes would be.
However, I did find a couple that were willing to work with us as they saw what our US sales were and are willing to take a chance working with us in the EU if it means they could potentially take over our US fulfillment.
The best part is that the fulfillment agencies both tie directly into Shopify and have fulfillment centers in both the EU and UK and I can ship our products directly from the manufacturer to them and they will fulfill them.
I have a final call today at 3:30 EST to confirm all the various costs associated with it and integration methods.
It was important to me to get all the costs do set the correct MSRP to get the profits we need to sustain and grow in the EU.
Anyway, I know this has taken much longer than anticipated, but I think I’m finally in the clear and will know more today!
Yeah, I don’t know about years plural, but it there are a lot of factors that would determine whether or not we come out with a two-gang. The biggest two are demand and profitability. We would need the demand to be enough to create the switch while having enough profits from it to not only sustain it, but hopefully use to create new products.
Based on Aqara coming out with one, it sounds promising that the above two metrics would be able to be hit as they’re much larger and have more costs associated with their product, so I am hopeful.
But if you’re looking to make a decision today or within the next year, then yes, I would say it’s safe to say we can’t deliver on a two-gang within a year. My hope would be once I see pre-orders and get an idea on volumes, I can make a decision on a multi-gang option, but we’d also like to come out with an Aux switch first for multi-way solutions, so the 2+ gang solution is currently #3 on our EU priority list.
Hey Eric,
Thanks for the update. Unfortunate to hear that the prefered distributor isn’t going to work out.
I feel like doing it yourself might be a good option here.
Perhaps a stupid question; but would Amazon be a good fulfilment party? Amazon is (becoming) pretty huge in Europe, with distribution centers and next day delivery everywhere (sometimes even same day).
As a European I can definitely say that we’re still the forgotten child on smart home stuff. Fortunately there are more and more cool products coming to the EU market. This means you should be quick and get Inovelli on the EU market before Aqara takes your share
Too bad to hear the switches will take a while to get released in the EU. I was already afraid of that. I will get the keys to my new house next month, so I will need some switches etc. relatively soon.
If the pre-order from the single and two-gang switch would go live, I would defintely purchase them. The alternatives in Europe are not really great. I just bought an Aqara wireless switch to experiment, and while it works, I’m just not a big fan…
Also one question re. the switches. Will the final product also have a presence sensor built in?
I think having the presence sensor built in is like the whole shtick with this product. Plus other bits but it’s the most important to me at least.
The only alternative is the aqara magic switch which is currently China only. The wired Aqara switches are pretty good but are pretty simple in that they don’t support multi press or have anything like a presence sensor, so you’d need multiple other devices.
Makes sense, sorry for the confusion. I was trying to say that each phase has an equivalent amount of switches needed to reach the total of 1,900 units. The most expensive Phase is Phase 1, so that’s why it had the largest number, but I can see where the confusion was in my wording, so I’ve updated it on the site to make it cumulative. Hopefully it makes more sense now
Yeah, good call – I didn’t really know how to put this disclaimer, so I just added it into the scrolling text (as you scroll down the page, the text changes). I’ve made the text smaller and put an asterisk (*) so hopefully that helps
Yeah, we decided a little bit up in this thread to go with Matter
Great question – yes, this will be possible on Home Assistant. They added this feature, but I need to update the product page to reflect it
Yes, this will be possible.
Perfect, thank you – I think I got all instances, but if you see anything else, let me know!
Great call-out. I’ve adjusted the wording and also added a disclaimer about multi-way installations in general.
Yeah, I just was lazy lol – I updated it
Same as above… wish I saved a template, so I was procrastinating using Illustrator to create the icons haha.
Great idea – I will put that the faceplate is excluded and then once I have one that we recommend, I can add it. Are there any in the market that are widely used that we can try to color match?
I’ll have to look into this more, great call-out!
Working on the progress bar… as with anything Shopify, it looks like it would require a paid plug-in – I’m trying to build one from scratch… we’ll see how that goes lol. Worst case, I’ll just update a graphic once a week or something.
Great idea – added it as best as I could. I’m only allowed to put 6 markers, so I had to squeeze it all in one marker.
Once I have an actual 3D rendering, I can remove the faceplate. For now, I put a disclaimer on the picture.
It should scroll as you’re moving down the page – does it stay static for you?
We would definitely prioritize Homey in the EU – I would say it’s a safe bet to say that this switch will be supported by the time it launches. We’re very close to having our Zigbee version certified and then it’s just a matter tweaking some things for Matter. Plus, I’ve been talking to the guys over at Homey and they’re really excited about this switch as well, so I believe they will make sure it’s fully ready as well.
Unfortunately not this switch as it’s a Dimmer switch that is only meant for lighting. Are you just needing a switch to Open/Close the shutters or are you looking for various levels of opening for the shutters (e.g., 10% open, 25% open, 50% open, etc)?
Actually, we were planning on having you guys beta test alongside us as there’s only so much we can do here on 120V and matching frequencies. Our manufacturer will help as well since they’re 240V, but we would prefer real world experience in the market that we’re deploying in, so when the time comes, I’ll for sure open up beta testing with you guys!
Good catch – just fixed it!
Dang, it was my understanding that 3 and 4-Way options were much more rare in the EU, so this is disappointing to hear. I think even in the US, I’d say about 25-30% of our rooms have multi-way, so that’s crazy to hear!
Totally understand your predicament, however – Shelly is a great brand and I’m sure you’ll be happy.
We do plan on releasing an Aux switch which is basically a momentary switch that will work (and be much less than buying an additional smart switch), but I don’t have an ETA on that right now, so I can’t promise anything unfortunately.
Not a dumb question at all and they’re actually on my list as we’ve used them in the past here in the US (FBA and MCF program). If the new distributor doesn’t work out or is too costly, I do plan on looking more into Amazon. The only hurdle I saw was that it only allowed for certain countries within the EU, so distribution would be limited to Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Poland, Sweden and the UK. So, most of the larger countries which should be work. Just misses some of the smaller countries in the EU.
However, I really like the simplicity of Amazon’s FBA/MCF program, so this is a strong contender. I would probably have to raise the price a little bit as they take some heavy fees, especially if the product is bought on Amazon (20-25%), but they do bring in much needed volume and brand recognition, which is nice.
Great question – the initial release will not have the mmWave sensor in it – I’d like to see how the base model sells first before introducing the mmWave version which will be significantly higher in cost (my fear is that if we lead with a really expensive product, it may not sell as well bc no one has really heard of us).
I promise I won’t give up on this – I’m learning a lot about all the red tape, but the way I look at it is that all other companies have to go through it and, if anything, it’s going to weed out the companies that don’t want to work for it a bit.
Just a quick update regarding the distributor and VAT situation.
I’m working with Shopify on the VAT program they offer and ran into some hurdles. Long story short, we aren’t able to apply for the program due to a conflict with an app that we use:
However, they are looking at seeing if this app can only apply to US/Canada and if that can circumvent the rule they have. Kind of dumb because it’s an app that is approved for Shopify, but we’ll figure it out. The good news is they’re working with me. Just more red-tape:
From a distribution side, I think we’ve gotten that part figured out. I’m waiting on final costs, but they seemed pretty reasonable on the phone call. Worst case @dennie170 had a great idea about using Amazon, which I know can be done as we’ve used it here in the US.
NET: I need to finish the issue with Shopify (backup plan is to just hire a third party company to be our merchant of record instead of Shopify) and we should be good to go.
Someone from Europe can probably chime on this, but when my sister lived in Austria, I would buy her and family’s Christmas gifts through Amazon, using the German site. Had no issues. I wonder if this is would also work in this case…?
I could be wrong, but I think that’s just a point of sale. Everybody should be able to order from any Amazon country within Europe.
I regularly order from Amazon Germany. It only comes with a few euro’s extra delivery. So I suspect that somebody from for example Portugal can actually order in Amazon France.
I think the issue comes up more with more modern open house layouts.
We will have a big living area (living room, dining room and kitchen all in one) which also acts as a “walk through” area, so it needs switches on 2 sides at least for the main lights.
Also the bed-rooms usually have 2-3 switches for the main light, one at the door and 1-2 next to the beds.
However i will definitely get Inovelli switches for the main bathroom and at least one ambient light in the living area right off the bat. I still see no jack of all trades for the rest, but will try some Shellys. Maybe upgrade to Inovelli + Aux once they become a thing.