VZM35 Blue Series Fan Switch as smart light control

Switches General Discussion
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1

I finally got around to installing my Fan Canopy module. I connected the VZM35 to a VZM31 Smart 2-1’s load output thinking the output is truly “On” when the switch is in Smart Bulb Mode. Per other threads, this is clearly not the case as the output is still going through the Triac and it resulted in terrible noise due to the inductive load.

However, I wish to maintain the ability to kill the circuit from the “breaker” on the switch. I have a spare VZM35 Fan Switch, so I figured I could use that in place of the VZM31 2-1. The canopy module seems to work fine here, with the switch in Smart Fan Mode. I wish to use the switch’s Paddle to control the canopy light and the Config button to control the fan. That’s when I noticed the paddle still only has 4 levels of “amplitude”. Is there a way to convince the switch to work with the full 255 values available? It seems to me, if the switch is in Smart Fan Mode, it is now merely being used as a remote, and thus should be allowed to produce values sufficient for controlling a light versus only being locked ot the 4 discrete Off, Low, Medium, High.

Any thoughts? I suppose my last option might be to go back to the VZM31 2-1 and hardwire the canopy module - but I really do prefer not having to add a pigtail and nut for the wiring, retaining the pull-out tab “breaker”, and also, to have an actual inductive-supporting branch there should I ever decide to install a dumb fan without light in that location.

Thank you!

2

Neither the fan switch nor the dimmer switch is rated for both a motor/inductive and a light/resistive load. So unfortunately connecting the canopy as a load on either switch is not a rated use. And as you’re probably aware, using an electrical component in a manner for which it is not rated can lead to a safety issue in terms of overheating, or premature failure.

Note the Inovelli drawing with no load on the switch:

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3

Ok. With that in mind. I have an extra Fan Switch. Say I bypass the switch (no load). Is there a way to configure it to produce continuous level control versus the 4 discrete values?

4

I’m going to punt to @rohan who is well versed on binding. If I understand the issue correctly, when you bind the fan switch to the canopy and use the paddle for dimming the lights, you don’t get continuous output, probably because AC fans are typically 3 or 4 speed.

I think there was a discussion of this in another thread, but I couldn’t find it.

5

I’ve not tried this with a VZM35, but if you were to swap over to a VZM31, it should work the way you are describing it.

I generally tell people if you want to control the fan with the paddle and the light with the config button, use the VZM35. If you want to do the opposite, use the VZM31.

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6

That’s correct. Assuming the VZM35 is configured to not control a load (Smart Fan/Light Mode): my presumption is that behavior is completely defined by the software at this point. Put another way: once the high voltage handling is omitted from the environment, there is no technical constraint for either VZM31 or VZM35 devices to behave as a Zigbee light remote or a fan remote.

So that takes me to the question: is there a configuration option or combination thereof that can be used to achieve this (a way to override minimum step, quantization, etc…) If not, it seems both switches could have mutually exclusive “Smart Bulb Mode” and a “Smart Fan Mode” (or a single parameter for [Loaded, Smart Bulb, Smart Fan].

7

I’m not aware of a combination of parameters that can achieve that today. I’ll tag in @EricM_Inovelli who can talk more about the feasibility of this.

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8

I’d second the request for a way to change the number of steps in the VZM35 level control when it’s in Smart Fan Mode, but for a slightly different reason: Using it as a remote for a 6-speed DC fan with a Smart by Bond wifi controller.

It’s working fine as-is, but I’m limited to speeds 2, 4, and 6 right now because of the VZM35’s quantization.

9

@angryllama what hub are you using? The fan switch should have P263 (like the vzm31) that lets you choose the scale like you are describing:

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It can be set to 255 like the vzm31 or have up to 9 speeds.

Looking at z2m it might need to be added to the converter for the fan.

10

But if you have SingleTapBehavior set to “New Behavior”, the output is still limited to 3 discreet values, right? There’s not a way to get more steps to cycle through other than the three P131-133 variables, right?

11

Do you mean to have these extra steps apply to the config button? Because that is what P131-133 are for. If you are using the paddle then P263 should work with SingleTapBehavior although it has been a very long time since I have tested it.

12

Thank you Eric. I’m using ZHA, and setting the “Smart fan LED display levels” parameter to “VZM31SN” resolves the discrete step issue. Further, changing P120 to 0 makes single tap behave like it does on my VZM31s.

Also, I don’t know if the following is unique to the VZM35, or a general issue with HASS/ZHA/Inovelli compatibility:

The two endpoints seem to be conflated (in HASS?). When I physically press the config button, I get it to cycle through the 4 values. I see the events in the “logbook” (the device is named “Dimmer”:

  • FIRST PRESS:
  • Dimmer Move To Level With On Off event was fired with parameters: {‘level’: 63, ‘transition_time’: 0}
  • Dimmer Press - Config event was fired
  • SECOND PRESS:
  • Dimmer Move To Level With On Off event was fired with parameters: {‘level’: 128, ‘transition_time’: 0}
  • Dimmer Press - Config event was fired
  • THIRD PRESS:
  • Dimmer Move To Level With On Off event was fired with parameters: {‘level’: 254, ‘transition_time’: 0}
  • Dimmer Press - Config event was fired
  • FORTH PRESS:
  • Dimmer Off event was fired
  • Dimmer Press - Config event was fired

This seems correct, except the VZM35’s Fan switch entity never turns on or changes level in the UI. The event is fired off though, so presumably it is fine for automation. Still, stinks that the UI won’t show the actual value without maybe adding some virtual device that reflects state based on last event fired.

But, worse, pressing the paddle up results in both entities turning on. A single press of the paddle results in the following in the Logbook:

  • Dimmer Move To Level With On Off event was fired with parameters: {‘level’: 63, ‘transition_time’: 0}
  • Dimmer Move To Level With On Off event was fired with parameters: {‘level’: 63, ‘transition_time’: 0}
  • Dimmer Press - Up event was fired
  • Dimmer Press - Up event was fired
  • Dimmer Light turned on.
  • Dimmer Fan turned on.

Pressing down on the paddle is the same, but with Down events and turning off.

Toggling either the Fan or Light in the UI behaves much the same as the paddle, but without the Press events. The entity being turned on or off fires the event, the other entity fires the event as well, and the entities are shown changing state. Here’s an example of turning the light on:

  • Dimmer On event was fired
  • Dimmer On event was fired
  • Dimmer Light turned on triggered by action Light: Turn on
  • Dimmer Fan turned on

This seems very odd to me. And that is all without any bindings in place. If I add a binding for VZM35 EP2 → VZM36 EP1 and VZM35 EP3 → VZM36 EP2, then I observe:

Paddle, HASS Light Entity, and HASS Fan Entity all control the canopy’s light. Config button controls the canopy’s fan.

13

Ok, trying to digest the info here. One thing that I think might be helpful is that the VZM35-SN had two endpoints revealed in Home Assistant. The light and the fan entity. These actually are supposed to control the same thing. The light entity exists because we want the switch to be compatible for bindings when used with a dimmer type device. The fan entity is what many people prefer when in HA because it makes more sense and is more aesthetically appealing.

I usually recommend people hide or disable the light entity to prevent any confusion. If you disable that entity then maybe we can focus on whether the fan entity is behaving appropriately or not.

14

Hi Eric.

Oh, well that would explain it then. I suppose I confused the new Fan entity as part of the changes to add EP3 to the switch (config button bound control).

If that’s the case though, then is there an intended way to control EP3 from Home Assistant (I realize this question is now becoming more geared to a HA forum)? A pity there isn’t just an entity for it. I suppose I could figure out how to hack one together with a handful of scripts and a template entity. This seems like a lot of work for most users, so I must be missing something.

Of course, there is always the option to automate the Canopy Module directly, but then the switch falls out of sync. Consider:

  1. Fan is off (dimmer and canopy)
  2. User turns canopy module’s fan to High (100%) via HA
  3. Signifant other tries to turn the super fast fan off with Config Button, but that takes it to 33% instead of off since the switch believes the fan was off. Then they press it again (67%)… and again (100%)… and it still “isn’t working” – the confounded thing 'is broken" and spousal approval factor plummets.

Thanks

15

FYI, the VZM-35 in smart fan mode is just a relay connecting direct line voltage to the output terminal. There is no reason for concern running lights from the load terminal when doing this. The canopy module would work fine connected to the load terminal with the switch in smart fan mode.

16

I totally understand. It has been something that we have been planning as it has been requested a few times. The switch has no current method of keeping track of the state of the level being controlled by the config button. A new separate endpoint has been suggested to track it. In the meantime, I might recommend that you use the different config button control method? It has a single click for low, double for medium, and triple for high (and hold it down for off). There is also a load indicator that appears momentarily to give a relative idea of what the speed is (in both config button modes). There is a parameter for it to change the color, but I don’t remember the number of it right now.

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