That sounds like the answer is “no” then 
- that’s too bad…
Sorry, meant to answer this yesterday – @kreene1987 is correct in that after 50k units we will have access to the source code.
However, we are trying to see if they’ll make an exception bc this is a B2B project and the client requires this.
Even if negotiations fall through, 50k units will likely be achieved in 6mo depending on how successful this is.
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How soon do you believe you may start accepting pre-orders on these?
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I’d say probably around early December. Maybe sooner depending on how the first look at these go (should be getting samples at the end of the month with fully loaded firmware).
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Any of this red series good news possibly going to lead into the fan/light switch coming back too?
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Yeah definitely. We have a new approach to it that we’re RFP’ing.
In a nutshell, we will create a dual switch (ie: a switch that controls two loads) that also has the ability to Z-Wave Associate with a canopy module (sold separately).
This way we can kill two birds with one stone. Sell a dual switch that can control two loads while also having the flexibility to use the switch as a fan/light combo.
Hopefully I explained that well enough.
The upgrade here is that we won’t be using RF to communicate from the switch to the canopy as that caused some issues before, but rather we’ll use Z-Wave to Z-Wave (or Zigbee to Zigbee).
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The only issue with this plan is wife approval factor. We bought and really really really want to stick with the red series because it had a defined light and fan switch, labeled as such. If the 2 load switch is a single paddle requiring multi taps or something for fan control, it won’t suit my needs. If it is 2 descret switches, please please have swappable covers produced with popular use cases printed on them. If so, will definitely work.
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It will be the exact look/feel as the current model just w/out the icons (but yeah maybe we could include the fan/light icon paddle in the canopy module package).
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Now that sounds like a perfect solution!
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The previous incarnation could be used with power at the Fan, sending that power down the switch leg to energize the switch. I assume this would still work for the new add-on canopy.
However, have you considered powerline communication (like the old X10 systems) directly between the canopy and the switch? It seems like radio waves to the canopy are likely problematic because of all the metal around the vicinity and Z-wave or Zigbee might have the same problem up at the canopy.
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Super excited for this too!
Name suggestions:
Dual switch = project Gemini
Canopy module = project Lazarus
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Very excited for project phoenix. I prefer Z-Wave atm and have been on the hunt for additional red series dimmers for some time now. I am monitoring this thread for pre-order information.
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I super excited for this. I bought 3 of the Blue series just to have some sort of Zigbee network because sensors are easier to find running Zigbee. But I prefer Zwave, so I definitely will be buying these over the Blue series.
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The LZW36 wiring setup does not have/use/require a load wire between the switch and canopy to send a signal over…
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@Eric_Inovelli , so for those of us that have the RF switch have you thought about trade in/up options? I would much rather have the straight ZWave option than to have rf in the mix!
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Does this mean that new software features for the existing reds in the wild are no longer a thing with these on the horizon?
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This is absolutely genius!!!
Just curious if that canopy module could be designed to accept association with the old fan/light combo? That could kill a third bulb and give a route for anybody with issues with the RF to upgrade the canopy module.
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Yes, definitely.
This is definitely something we can explore with the new manufacturer. When we initially looked at it with the old manufacturer, they talked us out of this approach (I can’t remember why and I lost my notes that had it written down). They also talked us out of direct association due to expenses, which turned out to be a major regret on my part, so I think this is something worth exploring.
Nice, I’m game – what is the meaning of the various names in relation to the switch?
Possibly Gemini could tie in as it’s represented by twins (dual switch) and its zodiac element is air.
Lazarus bc he was raised back to life (similar to the canopy module lol)?
Yeah we can certainly explore this!
Yeah unfortunately that is the case for a couple of reasons. One, the current Red Series runs on the 500 Series Chip and we maxed out the firmware space on it, so there’s very little room to work with, if any to enhance the feature-set. Two, and the main reason, is the manufacturer has the source code and we’d have to re-write it ourselves as they’ve stopped working with us.
Man you got me all excited as I thought that would be an awesome solution – but unfortunately the Z-Wave chip lies in the switch, not the canopy 
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Yup that was the thought behind them. Although I didn’t realize that the zodiac element for Gemini is air. That ties in nicely though since it is also replacing the original fan switch.
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Going forward, is there a way to include a source code escrow clause in your agreements with your manufacturers? That way, you’d have access to the code if they decided to abandon your project, go bankrupt, etc.