Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series)

We will be offering a Z-Wave version as a stretch goal on Indiegogo which can be found here: mmWave Smart Switch with Presence Sensing Radar | Indiegogo

We’ve fully funded the Zigbee equivalent which can be found here: Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)


NOTE: This is the Z-Wave equivalent of what we pitched to Linus Tech Tips following his issues with a competitors motion switches. The back story is that we were his #2 pick for outfitting his new house and the only reason he didn’t choose us was bc we didn’t have a motion switch. Given the issues he had and the frustration with Home Automation in general, we wanted to show him HA can be fun with the right product and right community backing it.

THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT BY LTT.

Linus Tech Tips Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkAiXzKOTNY&t=1791s


Project Team
Feel free to tag any of us with questions. I’ll (Eric H) be the go-to’s for overall project management and timeline questions, Eric M is the go-to for any firmware related questions and I’m (Eric H) the go-to for anything else. Either way, we’re all here to help!


Introduction
As per our tradition of working with you amazing people, here’s what this thread allows us to do as a community.

  1. Allows us to keep everyone updated on the project status (either good or bad)
  2. Allows you to participate and help us develop amazing products together
  3. Enjoy each other’s company and have fun talking home automation

How this initial post will be laid out is in five sections:

  1. Project Overview
  2. Initial Hardware & Software Requirements (edited to remain up-to-date)
  3. Timeline (edited to remain up-to-date)
  4. Pinned Ideas & Shout-outs (edited to remain up-to-date)
  5. Weekly Recap

Housekeeping

  • DATES & FUNCTIONS ARE NOT SET IN STONE: Just a reminder that all dates and functions are sometimes fluid. We have to make choices based on feasibility, opportunity costs, and overall timeline. I will be as transparent as possible on these decisions, but just a heads up, they may not always be exciting.
  • NO IDEA IS A BAD IDEA: Ok, some are, but honestly throw out anything that you can think of. If we use your idea, we’ll credit you and send you a free device, so take that shot!
  • VERSION 1 VS VERSION 2: Some ideas may be fantastic, but may not make the cut for the first version of the product. Once the product is locked in from a function standpoint, we’ll keep a tally of V2 ideas and then once the product is produced, we’ll move the ideas over to a suggestions/wishlist section.

Ok, let’s get this party started!


Project Overview
The purpose of this project is to offer a Z-Wave equivalent to our Blue Series mmWave switch as well as show Linus and team what the power of a community can do when it comes to creating products and automating our houses.

In addition, there has been a huge market for motion switches and a large B2B client reached out to us for a WiFi/BT version that we are in the process of securing the contract.

We’re excited to finally get some publicity and recognition for our innovative products and I’m personally excited to work on another project with the community as you all are the secret weapon.

Project Name - Linus

We chose the name Linus bc I felt that it could be a rallying cry around what Home Automation can do given the right platform and products. We were excited to be considered on his channel and, while ultimately he went with a competitor, the reasoning is because he wanted a motion switch which we currently didn’t have. Upon hearing some of the challenges he had, frustration with Home Automation in general, and many of our customers reaching out to let us know we should make something for him, we decided to see if we could fast track this project.

So, we’d like to name this project after him and his channel as a way to show him and his audience what the Inovelli community can do and show that it can be night and day in terms of what he experienced with another product.

My goal is to come up with a truly inspiring motion switch with you guys that, regardless of which route he and his team choose, will have an impact across North America as our other switches have.


Linus - Hardware Requirements
We will be using our current 2-1 Switch hardware with a few modifications.

Hardware

NOTE: Subject to change as R&D has not kicked off. The switch shown has a lux sensor built in which may or may not be included.

Hardware - Dimmer Switch (Look / Feel)

  • Responsive Paddle: rests in a neutral state (tap up = on // tap down = off & hold up = dim up // hold down = dim down)
  • Config / Favorite Button: button should be used for configuration of the switch as well as scene control.
    • Should be able to be held (for config)
    • Should be able to be tapped (for scene control)
  • RGB LED Bar: should measure the % of how much the switch is dimmed
    • LED’s should be RGB (artificial white included)
    • LED’s should also be able to be dimmed
  • Colors: dimmer switch will be offered in white (matching Lutron Claro wallplates), but the paddle should be able to be replaced to change colors (almond, brown, red, black, grey, etc)
  • Slim Design: depth of switch should be as slim as possible so that it can fit into metal boxes.
  • Motion Sensor (and potentially Lux) – motion detection either via PIR or mmWave with built in lux if possible
  • Air Gap: UL requirement
  • No heat-sink tabs: remove heat sink tabs for easier installation (note: may have to sacrifice max wattage)

Hardware - Features & Capabilities

Should follow Zigbee mmWave Switch tooling and capabilities if possible.

  • Z-Wave 800: use the latest Z-Wave chipset
  • 3-Way / 4-Way Ready: should work in multiple different settings in a 3 & 4 Way setting
    • Should work with an auxiliary switch
    • Should work with an existing dumb switch
    • Should work with another smart switch (if wired to another smart switch, it should be able to detect this)
  • Power Monitoring: switch should measure the power consumption
  • Z-Wave Distance Estimator: should be able to estimate the signal strength of the Z-Wave signal and notify via the LED bar
  • Instant On: when tapped 1x (and scenes aren’t used), switch should turn the bulb on instantly (no delay)
    • Configurable delay in 100ms increments (see tech doc)
  • CFL & LED Compatibility: minimum buzz and flickering
  • Neutral & Non-Neutral Compatibility: switch should be able to work with a neutral wire or without a neutral wire
    • Should auto-detect which setting it’s in (neutral/non-neutral, aux/dumb) and if it can’t, then there should be a manual override.
  • Auto-Detect Neutral/Non-Neutral: Switch should detect whether or not it’s connected to a neutral wire or not
  • mmWave 24Ghz: Prefer 24GHz mmWave sensor
  • Lux Sensor (Optional): Detect light brightness

Linus - Software Requirements
Will follow the 2-1 Switch firmware, but adds in motion/lux parameters

  • On/Off or Dimmer: Switch should be able to be either an on/off or dimmer depending on what the user sets it as
  • Z-Wave Scene Control: Multi-taps to activate various scenes
  • RGBW Bar Config: Bar should be able to change colors and dimmed to the customer’s favorite level
    • LED bar will also be fully addressable (thanks for the call out @suzakutk!)
    • Animations that mimic our 2-1 & Fan + the addition of weather animations
  • Auto Timer: Switch should have a timer that shuts the switch off after a certain amount of time
  • Easy Config: Switch should be able to be configured via the config / favorite button.
    • There should be infinite customization via parameters in the firmware, but also set customizations for HUB’s that do not allow parameter changes (ie: Wink)
  • Internal Relay Disable: Internal relay should be able to be disabled locally and via Z-Wave
  • Minimum dim level / Maximum dim level
  • Ramp rate configuration: Ability to change how fast/slow light turns on
  • Ramp rate & instant on/off separated
  • Default Dim Level: Ability to set the default dim level
  • OTA Ready: Ability to update firmware via OTA
  • Z-Wave Associations
  • Smart Bulb Mode
  • mmWave: Zone settings and calibration
  • Lux calibration (if applicable): Ability to adjust lux reading if something is off
  • Leading/Trailing Edge: Switch should have both leading and trailing edge algorithms for greater bulb compatibility

Timeline
NOTE: This project is also not officially kicked off – a lot hinges on whether we can reach the stretch goal. I believe in you all!

Ah, everyone’s favorite part. When is this flippin thing going to be released? Great question – here’s the high-level of what happens leading up to the first release of the timeline:

  1. We present a PRD (Project Request Document) that has all of the above info in it (see above section for the pdf)
  2. R&D (manufacturer) analyzes the PRD and we go back and forth until we can align on 90% of the product
  3. Initial Timeline is released and remaining 10% of product features are added/cut along the way

Again, just want to throw this out there – I don’t have a crystal ball so I can’t predict things that come up along the way. Trust me when I say we’re trying our best to get things launched on time.

Pre-Initial Timeline Milestones:

  • Present PRD: Completed
  • R&D Analyzation: Completed
  • Initial Timeline Released: Completed

Timeline (Estimated)

The initial timeline will be shown below once released and will be updated monthly (if needed).

Timeline (Estimated)

The initial timeline will be shown below once released and will be updated monthly (if needed).

Phase 1 - ID Design

Design & Render Based on Samples and STP File
  Est Completion Date: Aug. 19, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Structure Design
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 12, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

3D Modeling
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

3D Print Housing for Prototype Sample Assembly
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 12, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

First mmWave Radar Type Election Test
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

First Testing Environment
Ceiling Installation, Wall Installation (Open Area), Facing Door, Facing Window, Near Fan & AC Unit
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

First Test Different Human Status Indoors
Motion, Micro-Motion, Stationary Status
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Second mmWave Radar Type Election Test
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 24, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Second Testing Environment
Ceiling Installation, Wall Installation (Open Area), Facing Door, Facing Window, Near Fan & AC Unit
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 24, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Second Test Different Human Status Indoors
Motion, Micro-Motion, Stationary Status
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 09, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Submit Report on mmWave Testing Specific to Avoiding False Positives
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 26, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Submit Details of Default mmWave Configuration for Customer Feedback
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 01, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

PCB Layout Design & PCBA Making
  Est Completion Date: Oct. 12, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Schematic Diagram Design
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Power Board Schematic Diagram
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Wireless Board Schematic Diagram
  Est Completion Date: Sep. 30, 2023
  Status: COMPLETED

Firmware Design & Test
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 20, 2023
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Phase 2 - Detailed Design

Hand Sample Making
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 15, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Hand Sample Testing & Verification
  Est Completion Date: Nov. 20, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Tooling Build Out & Testing
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 20, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Packing Design (Functional Card, Inner Tray, etc)
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 06, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Phase 3 - Beta Testing

Create Beta Units
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 15, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Round 1 Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Dec. 29, 2023
  Status: NOT STARTED

Round 2 Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 08, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Round 3 Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 18, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Final Firmware Test
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 28, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Marketing Material

Manual Creation
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 15, 2024
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Box Design
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 15, 2024
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Insert, Wiring Guide, etc
  Est Completion Date: Jan. 15, 2024
  Status: IN PROGRESS

Certifications

Z-Wave
  Est Completion Date: Feb. 15, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

FCC/IC
  Est Completion Date: Feb. 15, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

ETL
  Est Completion Date: Feb. 15, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED

Mass Production

Mass Production
  Est Completion Date: Mar. 25, 2024
  Status: NOT STARTED


Pinned Ideas & Shout-Outs
Here are the ideas from the community. We sincerely appreciate them, we love them, and we couldn’t create the products we do without them. So, thank you for your input and let’s continue to innovate together and change the home automation category for the better (NOTE: if an idea is crossed out, it’s not because it wasn’t valid, nor was it something we didn’t consider – we’ve discussed it internally or with the manufacturer and unfortunately it was not feasible).

Hardware

Software

  1. @suzakutk: It would be neat if this could become local configuration parameters (adaptive_bightness=on/off, adaptive_brightness_weight=numerical value that would be multiplied with the current lux value to determine brightness percentage when turning on the switch) - idea here: Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series) - #17 by suzakutk
  2. @JimK: It would be nice if you could trigger the light bar on the switch to activate based on motion to assist a user with finding the light switch at night.
  3. @Eric_Inovelli: Ability to customize sensitivity based on time of day (or just have some sort of control over sensitivity)
  4. @Eric_Inovelli: Zones/Regions: Ability to set/save zones (exclusion)
  5. @Eric_Inovelli: LED Bar illuminate at night when walking toward it (optional setting)
  6. @rohan: Association Group for the mmWave sensor

Monthly Recap
Every other Thursday morning, we have a meeting with our manufacturer to go over the various projects (status, issues, timeline, etc) and below I’ll provide a recap as well as edit the sections above so we can all keep track. If you have any specific questions you’d like me to ask, feel free to tag me and let me know so I can ask them as well. The bi-weekly cadence for updates will be Thursday mornings (or afternoons depending on when we have the meeting).

April 27, 2023: Opened up on Indiegogo as a stretch goal as our Zigbee equivalent was fully funded and the demand for a Z-Wave version is there. Let’s do this!

May 1, 2023: Well that didn’t take long… we raised $75k over the weekend which is $10k short of where we wanted to be in a month (so, way ahead of pace). Because of this, we’re going to go ahead and move forward with this project!

July 7, 2023: Update posted here: Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series) - #29 by Eric_Inovelli

Aug 30, 2023: Update posted here: Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series) - #41 by Eric_Inovelli

Nov 30, 2023: Quick update: We spoke with the manufacturer yesterday and they are currently wrapping up the firmware and we’ll be receiving all the beta units in a couple of weeks so that we can finally start testing and answering some of these questions I’m seeing in the thread.

Feb 20, 2024: Update posted here: Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series) - #68 by Eric_Inovelli

June 24, 2024: Update posted here: Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series) - #75 by Eric_Inovelli

6 Likes

:wink:

Not seeing the stretch goal.

Every. Dang. Time. LOL. One day I’ll figure out the copy/paste feature!

1 Like

Sorry, just put it up!

So pleased this is happening, and I just signed up for 10. I have a few general questions:

  1. Can we trigger LED bar notifications based on the presence status of other switches? One of the use-case examples listed was detecting children’s presence in their rooms. It wouldn’t be helpful to have their switches change color, since they’re not visible from outside the room, but changing the hallway or parent’s bedroom switches to red if no presence detected in the kids’ rooms would be perfect.

  2. How does the mmWave detection handle things like blankets? I’m curious if it would work as intended when someone is under the covers asleep. Does it need constant or full body line of sight, or is it more intelligent than that?

  3. Are there any animal/pet-specific settings or concerns in regards to presence detection?

  4. I’m now too invested in Z-Wave to also go down the Zigbee route, but I’ve struggled to find anything comparable to Philips Hue bulbs. If I use Hue bulbs with these switches, we’ll be limited to using scenes to control the bulbs, correct? Are there any legitimate Z-Wave bulb alternatives? I was so desperate to see an Inovelli BR30.

  5. We now have each new product being developed in Zigbee and Z-Wave formats. I’m sure this question has been asked a million times: Will it ever be possible to see products that include both radios so the user can choose either one or both? I know I’d spend more to have the flexibility and to future-proof my setup, but I’m ignorant about this.

Godspeed, production team.

2 Likes

Really try hard to make the LUX sensor happen. I mean if you use this to automate lighting you just ~might~ want to decide if the lights should be on or not based on how bright the room is.

I could really use this in the kitchen area for the lights, but I would want the lux level to decide what lights to turn on (or not turn on).

2 Likes

Awesome, and a Spartan’s fan? Nice!

I’m going to preface the answers in that they’re the best I have at this time but they’re subject to change (hopefully not, but just need to cover myself lol).

Yeah absolutely (this one I’m confident on).

This I’m not sure on. It’s supposed to detect a millimeter’s worth of movement. So, in theory, if they’re moving in their sleep it should trigger it. I know some have breathing detection, but I don’t think that will be possible with this switch.

However, I’m not sure what will be picked up if someone is completely still for 8hrs lol.

This is the challenge… unfortunately mmWave (and PIR) detects animals and has no way of differentiating it. I think PIR may be able to do a better job due to the lower temperature in some animals, but it’s still not the best.

Our solve for this would be to create zones that can be excluded. For instance, if you have a dog that’s 3ft high, you’d exclude the bottom row of detection from the sensor. Obviously you wouldn’t be able to account for if the dog jumps, but that’s something we’ll have to explore a solution on.

Similarly with ceiling fans, we’d set an exclusion zone at the top of the room to not pick up the spinning blade.

Correct regarding the scene question. Unfortunately, this is an area Z-Wave struggles in (bulbs) and associations to those bulbs.

I would recommend using Zigbee for the areas you have Philips bulbs for the best performance with smart bulbs. We may come out with a Z-Wave version, but if we did, it would be after a Zigbee version is launched as it’s just much cheaper to build and the market has more opportunity unfortunately.

That’s a great question that I haven’t heard in a while actually! I don’t think we’d do anything like that, however, simply because I don’t think there’s much room left on the PCB to add an additional radio without significantly impacting the depth of the switch.

Plus, while some people would spend extra, it would probably add at least $10 to the switch MSRP and I think we’re already at a premium cost that it would be hard to attract new customers that are more price sensitive.

It’s something we can look into though. I’m all for optimizing and not having a ton of SKU’s.

Yeah I’m definitely camp Lux. There are also a lot of B2B companies that are getting into circadian lighting that would love to have a switch with lux in it to better automate that.

Our only reason for not promising it right now is space on the PCB. I’m hoping we can get it in there though.

2 Likes

This could be really cool. A Z-Wave switch (controlled by a Z-Wave hub) bound to Zigbee bulbs. You’d have the best of both world’s then.

1 Like

ahhh man can you imagine all the HA users reporting radio issues for not just one but two per device?

2 Likes

Well with 2 radios, it’s probably 4x the problems.

4 Likes

They can call it Project 4x. You guys are supposed to be on my side and help get this made, not scare it out of existence. :laughing:

Project Update:

As we’re only $10k from the goal, we made the decision to move forward with this project officially! I seem to keep underestimating everyone’s enthusiasm for Z-Wave which I need to work on apparently haha. I set the $325k as a stretch goal and gave us a month to accomplish it and you guys essentially nailed it within a couple days!

I sent out a project update via Indiegogo about next steps, but I’ll also post them here:

  • I will be emailing everyone to see if you’re a member of our community and, if so, would you like me to activate the community flair that comes along with the perk you purchased
  • I will be reaching out to the people who purchased the, “Automatic Beta Testing” perk and getting you setup in our system
  • We will be finalizing the deposit to the manufacturer to kick things off and discussing a few outstanding questions we have around mmWave Zones and how we’ll accomplish this
  • I will be updating the community threads - I encourage everyone to check these out and comment when applicable as this is where we get our ideas, we discuss solutions, etc - This is your place to voice your opinion and shape the project:

Congratulations everyone, we’re really looking forward to this project and seeing where it takes us as a community!

5 Likes

Jumped on a 5 pack over the weekend. Very happy to see that the stretch goal will be met. I’ll eventually need a couple regular on/off switches that are scene capable (controlling wall outlets so technically can’t use dimmers) but these will hold me over until I can find/grab on/off switches.

1 Like

In for just the one, because I can’t find use for more than one or two without programmable zones (and the house is already filled with Inovelli Reds and PIR sensors, controlled with Entity Controller on HA). Very happy for Inovelli and hope the continuing enthusiasm means more success for the team and the continuation of awesome products for the smart home community. :heart:

1 Like

I’ve been waiting for an 800 series version of that other device - I’m so glad you guys are doing it. I could only get 1 for now, but over time I’ll be getting 4-5 more! Thankyou!

1 Like

Wish that I could buy in on a few of these, but my cardiologist does not want me near any mmWave stuff like this and BMI-measuring scales because the RF will cause problems with my pacemaker per the manufacturer…

I’d go back to the manufacturer and see what’s power levels EIRP/frequencies are acceptable because there’s quite a few mmWave technologies out in the public today.

1 Like

FR here!
Can we make this (and I guess any other new zwave products) support association to turn on/off the light portion of the LZW36? If it’s a different chip or something required NM, but if it’s just firmware…

1 Like

It is absolutely a hard NO to mmWave exposure. Sadly, they replaced my old ticker box last month when the batteries ran low…and they installed the same ancient model device because of some compatibility problem with my heart condition. Modern units are much more tolerant, and can even be used in some MRI machines. I now have another 7-10 years stuck with this ancient implanted clunker… :roll_eyes: