Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series)

So Hot Right Now Projects & Roadmaps
#51

On the Lux sensor use case questions, my use case is this:

I plan on using this in my dining room to turn on the table lights if:

a) motion is detected in the room and
b) it’s dark enough, since there are windows on two sides of the room providing natural light already.

My wife prefers the natural light, and I want the lights to turn on automatically, so the compromise is to turn them on automatically sometimes. So a lux sensor that can tell at least a good reliable range from 0-100 (or whatever lux is measured in… I’ll admit I haven’t used one before) is a great deal. If there’s no lux sensor, I could just disable the motion sensor based on the Solar elevation using Home Assistant, but it would be better to just use the brightness of the room it’s in IMHO.

#52

I have two main use cases:

  1. Use the these as switches as intended to control a load and/or smart bulb.

My ask under #1 is as follows:

  • A dimmer variant.
  • A 4-speed fan control variant.
  1. One of the overlooked use cases is a clean install of a mmwave sensor (rather than wall mounting it or having it sit on a desk, table, or counter) in mmwave-only mode (not connected to a load) throughout the house by expanding gangboxs by 1 gang. An example is a bathroom with a sink area that is separated by a door from the shower and toilet. The sink area has a single light switch for which I am using a Lutron RadioRA3 switch. The shower and toilet area has two switches: a light switch and a exahust fan switch. I want mmwave detection in both areas due to challenges with PIR. I will expand the gangbox in the sink area to add a mmwave switch (which won’t have a load on it) so I can keep the Lutron switch. I will replace the exhaust fan switch with a mmwave variant (hopefully this switch will support a builder-grade bathroom exhaust fan). The Lutron RadioRA3 light switch will remain.

My asks under #2 are as follows:

  • An option to lock the switch (so it doesn’t click when pushed) and that Inovelli sells a flat “blank” to replace the decora paddle. That way we can benefit from the mmwave detection and LED indicator without a load, and not confuse guests with a clickable switch that doesn’t do anything.
  • Confirmation that we can run a builder-grade bathroom exhaust fan off the switch.

I have a stretch ask. Having a temperature, humidity, and lux sensor built-in would be phenomenal (or as upgradable module or modules) that either go behind the “blank” or attach somewhere on the switch. Even a PIR option (as early mmwave sensors were made better with both mmwave & PIR). The clean install issue is a problem when upgrading an existing home. As technology changes so much, or as devices break, the idea of cutting holes in sheetrock and then having to fix them when the a broken device is discontinued is a big problem.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have questions.

#53

The specifications show this sharing the features of the 2-1 switches, so it should be software selectable as dimmer or on/off.
Also, like the 2-1s, it will probably have the sine wave on/off option, which will likely drive a simple bathroom fan - but I agree, it would be nice if this could be “certified”.
Multi-speed fan might be nice, but in most cases, I’d expect to have 2 switches, one for the lights (which would be this one) and another for the fan (the upcoming fan switch, it’s “4 speed”, so long as you count off!). Then the mmWave motion in this (lights) switch would be connected via bindings/associations/scenes to the fan switch.
I like the “blank” paddle idea. Hopefully it’ll fit the existing “normal” switches too - giving an automation controllable circuit with an indicator, but looking different enough that people won’t expect to be able to push it.
A lux sensor is in the plans already. I’ve seen requests for temperature & humidity sensors before & the usual answer is that a wall mounted switch, with heat generating components isn’t the right place to put these - but, if it could be made to work…!

#54

Having additional sensors (PIR, temp, humidity, air quality, etc) would be awesome but perhaps not realistic for this project. If not, maybe those things could be available in a distinct module that fits in a decora one gang blank plate?

Re the lux sensor, I don’t think it has to be overly precise. Having said that, allowing for accurate (enough) detection of relative lux level would be nice particularly if a dimmer feature can be incorporated. This could in turn nicely tie in with the Project Walt switch, future fan control, sensor plate as above, etc cumulatively resulting in a very useful switch ecosystem.

#55

Having additional sensors (PIR, temp, humidity, air quality, etc) would be awesome but perhaps not realistic for this project.

The issue with Temp/Humidity sensors on a switch, is the switch and inside electrical box do get pretty hot… and if you have a double or more gang box, with other smart/dimmer/heavy loads, the switches generate so much heat that a humidity/heat sensor is just too un reliable. Now, having said that, you mention maybe a nice add to Project Walt. Now if one of the buttons on the Walt can somehow be insulated enough and have a small air grill on it, that could be a way to incorperate it into the switch.

I agree, a LUX sensor would be nice, but that is difficult to get a good reading because most switches are not direct for where the light itself is, or a picture hanging over the switches or a shelf will hinder its functionality greatly, and so return on benifit will likely be very few people actually have a useful area, unless maybe like the motion sensor “dumb” switches that are all over the market for decades now, the LUX sensor was a bump out. Come to think of this, a bump out for LUX, Temp/Humidity, even barrowmetric (think BEM680 or SGP30/SGP40 where the sensor to measure Temp, Humidity, Barrowmetric Preasure, IAQ, C02 equivelent, VOC equibvelant, Gas Resistance, etc is the size of about 1.5mmx1.5mmx1.5mm (stupid tiny)). Even a mic with an internal beep for feedback(no need for a speaker) to have hte ability to have a NON-CLOUD feed to HomeAssistant, where you can setup a custom wake word and in every room, have a mic to voice commands (feature released in newer HA releases)

I built my own FULL blown sensor in each room and adding a MIC and speaker to each ESP32 sensor stack. so I have a heatmap of air quality, temp, humidity, LUX, Radar motion, PIR for additional motion feedback, VOC, IAQ, radar distance/movement speed/still/motion/If close enough heartbeat BPM (60Ghz radar), MIC, Speaker (if a room has no radar person in the room, saying a wake word wont activate the sensor, this way i’m not having a mic in two rooms over picking up my comand and failing, and ONLY the switch with movement/detection. Love using the new wake word system in HA, no more relying on slow google/alexa to perfom commands…

#56

Copy/Paste from the Zigbee mmWave Thread:

To catch you up to the parade if you’ve missed it, the last update I mentioned that we would have to push back the production schedule as we really wanted to push to add in lux monitoring which we ended up being able to do. This caused a delay.

This month, we also ran into a snafu in that the mmWave sensor we were going to use tested poorly (HiLink) and their specs did not match what we were promised. I think they were hoping we wouldn’t test the module prior to purchasing it or something as we tested their module alongside two other ones that were similar size and theirs performed the worst. Very disappointing.

We’ve settled on a new mmWave sensor that has a better field of view (150° as opposed to 120°) and tested the best. Much of the month was spent negotiating the price, redesigning the PCB and testing.

–

All this has caused a three month delay with most of the delay coming from Chinese New Year. We’re targeting March 25, 2024 for Mass Production.

That said, a three month delay in exchange for a lux sensor + a better mmWave sensor than what we originally scoped seems like a fair tradeoff. Disappointing, but it could be worse.

The timeline is updated in the project post!

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#57

Copy/Paste from the Blue Series thread (most of this was already shared) of what I just updated everyone on Indiegogo:

Good evening everyone,

Well, I have some good news and some bad news. Let’s start with the bad. As I alluded to last update, we’ve had to push back production due to us wanting to add in the lux sensor and in doing so, we had to revamp the PCB.

In addition to that delay, we have been vigorously testing a certain mmWave sensor, which based on their sales team, could do everything we wanted while also maintaining a small profile to fit inside the switch. Turns out, as we started testing for quality control and for other false positives, the sensor failed. This was surprising to us as this sensor has been praised all over the internet and is even used by a lot of people in the Home Assistant community (HiLink).

Upon talking with their sales team further, they admitted that they aren’t actually the manufacturer for this chip, but rather they get it from a different company and they have no control over the firmware. Not only that, but the sales specs listed aren’t true.

This was very disappointing and we had to go out and find an alternative.

This brings me to the good news.

Upon researching, we found another module that performed exeptionally and passed all our internal tests. Not only that, but the field of view is 150 degrees (as opposed to the 120 degrees we’ve been promising – which turned out to be one of the things the original company lied about – we were seeing 60 degrees tops).

That said, we’ve had to redesign the PCB again for the new module, but we’re just wrapping up Phase 1, which is the hardest and longest phase (the building and testing of the hardware).

We will be receiving our beta samples on December 15th which will give us a solid month or two to really test and finalize the product. Luckily, during this time, a lot of the certifications can be done in parallel.

Our latest estimate for production now is end of March.

I know this is dissapointing, but I do want to say, I truly believe this is a much better product than we originally promised, which I’m excited about.

Any questions, I’m happy to answer!

Eric

Founder | Inovelli

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#58

Quick update:

We spoke with the manufacturer yesterday and they are currently wrapping up the firmware and we’ll be receiving all the beta units in a couple of weeks so that we can finally start testing and answering some of these questions I’m seeing in the thread.

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#59

Zone question. Will this support mapping zones in a room. For example, if I want one automation when you sit on the couch vs stand at the counter, can I do that? Something like Aqara’s presence sensor

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#60

Just curious, is there any new year update?

#61

If you are a backer they sent an email update on 1/3.

#62

Hmm, I am a backer… But I don’t think I received it. I checked my spam. Maybe I didn’t sign up properly. Is there any web page version that I could view? Or could it be re-sent to me?

#63

You can check igg here:

But it sounds like they’ll be emailing updates out from now on, so make sure your email is up to date with indiegogo.

#64

Project Update:

We are still working on the hardware around the lux sensor and I think we’ve finally gotten to a place where we can move forward with tooling. We should be receiving the final version next week for approval with all the changes we requested.

Simultaneously, they will be releasing the first round of firmware so we can get a head start on testing it while they produce the beta units, so things should really start picking up here (thank God).

Here is the latest (and hopefully final) look at the switch:

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Here it is mocked up next to the Blue 2-1:

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Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)
#65

Aartech doesn’t have these to pre-order in Canada…is this something you could setup with them or ZWP, please? I’d like to pre-order a few Red Switches, thanks!

#66

“Monthly” update coming soon?

#67

He has it in his calendar to update projects in the forum today but unfortunately is out sick! So give him an extra few days to get caught up!

1 Like
#68

Project Update: We’ve received the second round of beta units with the corrections we asked for in the last round. There are still a couple things wrong with it that I’d like to see fixed before we open up tooling.

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Next steps are to talk with them tomorrow (Wed) to understand if these couple issues (ground screw plate issue and diffuser issue) are due to the 3D print of the switch or what happened as they were listed on our last round of feedback.

They’ve also loaded on the firmware, so @EricM_Inovelli will be testing the initial firmware so that when we give the official beta units to the testers, it will be 90-95% complete.

11 Likes
#69

Any timeline updates for the beta units and eventually production units (if testing goes well)?

#70

See update here: Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series) - #439 by Eric_Inovelli

2 Likes