Ah, then those are definitely Zigbee. They added Z-Wave as a stretch goal later. You will do well to email support to clarify your wishes.
Project update (I’m going to copy/paste most of what was mentioned on the Zigbee update):
Hey all, project update time!
I appreciate all the responses, both positive and constructive ones. It’s always nerve wracking for me to post disappointing news as these projects are basically what I pour most of my time into and it sucks when they go south. Especially this one as there’s a lot of pressure on it – but it’s the risk we took and I’m not letting it fail.
That said, I have some good news which I’ve been excited to share.
I’ve had a chance (along with @EricM_Inovelli) to test the new sensor and it is night and day what we experienced and, quite honestly, how I expected mmWave to perform when I first heard of the technology.
Here’s what we’ve tested so far and then I’ll give the update:
Zones
This was the biggest improvement and what we were missing before. The sensor has the ability to set interference zones from an x, y, and z axis. What this means is that the problems with the sensor going through walls and floors detecting people can now be blocked off left to right, top and bottom and via depth.
Here’s an example:
The left side of the screen is a yellowish square, will not detect anything that goes in that area. The red square is the target detection area where I currently was sleeping (or in this case, about to go to sleep). The red circle is me and it can track me moving across the room.
You can set up to 4 different interference zones and customize the detection zone, making this pretty robust in eliminating false positives.
Think of it this way:
- Interference Zones = Use this if you have a something that’s in the middle of the detection zone. In other words, if you want your detection zone to be 6 meters by 6 meters, but you have something in the middle of the room (floor fan) you would set an interference zone.
- Detection Zone = Use this if you want to eliminate any detection across the x, y, or z plane. A use case would be if you have a ceiling fan at the 5 meter mark and do not see the need to detect anything else at or above the 5 meter mark. You would simply set the detection zone to only detect motion up to 5 meters (or slightly below) rather than setting an interference zone just for the ceiling fan
People Tracking
The sensor can detect where you are in the room and it works great and while the sensor can technically detect up to 3 people, this is more of a beta feature right now per the manufacturer of the mmWave sensor. Single person tracking has worked 100% of the time, whereas multiple people tracking has worked about 90% of the time for me, so I don’t want to guarantee this one yet.
Here’s an example of multi-person tracking (single-person tracking was shown in the screenshot above):
In this example, I had Courtney come into my office and it showed me (at the 3m mark) sitting at my desk, whereas Courtney is shown at the 4m mark).
Breathing Detection
The sensor can detect breathing and I’ve tested this by having it track my sleeping for the past 3 nights and it has never not detected me. It even showed in the logs me getting out of bed to go to the bathroom haha.
Eric M tested it in his bedroom with his wife and it detected both of them.
So, this is huge news because our other sensor would fail if we sat too still for a period of time and the manufacturer’s solution was to increase the timeout time (terrible advice).
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As for the specs, here are the official specs of the mmWave sensor:
- 60 GHz mmWave Sensor
- 2T2R PCB microband antenna
- ARM Cortex -M3 kernel
- FoV is 120 degrees
For the manufacturer of the mmWave sensor, I’m not going to disclose that just yet (I will once they’re in market as I don’t need to give the competition a head start), but just know that it’s one that’s touted all over the Home Assistant forums and used by a lot of the custom mmWave sensors you see in those forums. They were the original manufacturer that we wanted to go with because our testing (we tested a 24 GHz model) was nothing but positive, but the switch manufacturer talked us out of it (looking back, it was one of the worst mistakes I’ve made not listening to our gut). They are constantly innovating and have a ton of sensors developed already. I’m sure those that are following mmWave sensor manufacturers or have seen any of the custom sensor videos will know who this company is.
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Anyway, I have officially moved on from the original manufacturer and have sent a purchase order to the new manufacturer (our current one that makes all of our switches) and their ETA for production is March 2025.
Full timeline below (which I will also update):
The structure design was sent to me yesterday and I’m having them make a couple adjustments so that the switches will work if installed with a mud-ring as this was an issue I ran into when installing our current switches at a large B2B project. I should receive an updated file tonight or tomorrow night.
For more info on the structure design please see this link: Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series) - #592 by Eric_Inovelli
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Hey my bad, I was just going through the comments and missed this one. So our original design didn’t have the ability to have zones (one of the main reasons we decided to move a different direction), it just had the ability to change the depth.
Longer, more in depth explanation here: Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series) - #558 by Eric_Inovelli
However, moving to the new sensor allows for all sorts of customizations with zones (more info here: Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series) - #82 by Eric_Inovelli)
How we’re going to implement this? I’ll have to defer to @EricM_Inovelli on this one, but we are still working on the firmware as the new manufacturer just got this project, so we may not know the answer to this yet.
In other words, the ability for zoning and excluding certain areas (as well as a whole slew of other parameters that weren’t available before) are included in the mmWave sensor – the challenge is just as you laid out… how do we convert these to parameters?
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There’s definitely a need for a switch that has proper/good presence sensing functionality on the market. I already have dimmers from you guys and love them and was looking into these presence sensor switches for places such as bathrooms. For instance I have a bathroom in a “T” shape and the light switch unfortunately in the base of the T meaning that it won’t detect anything in the flat section. In a similar way, another bathroom I have is a very wide room compared to the depth which means that the FOV will severely limit detection to a very small area of the room. In the second scenario, a FOV of 150 would address the issue however. I don’t know how many rooms are such that the light switches are in the corner like this, but I can imagine that this may be a concern for some other folks when looking at purchasing these.
Any thoughts about the topic or mitigation strategies that may help alleviate some of these scenarios?
Release date? Have 5 on order.
Moved to the Red Linus Thread
Read up a couple posts.
Thanks. Read up. Bummer. Delayed from the Nov/Dec date on your web site. Ok. Will have to adjust (for now). Want all my switches in before Christmas.
The new mmWave sensor sounds amazing. Have you considered a battery-powered sensor-only version (no switch). The zone capabilities make this motion sensor way better than other motion sensors in the market. Or does the mmWave sensor use too much power to make batteries a reasonable option?
I assume the GUI shown in the screenshots and video is for engineering use only? What is envisioned for hub-based configuration??
Happy New Year! Any updates? Based on the website looks like it’s been pushed back an additional 2 months?
Project Update + Housekeeping:
We just received the beta samples yesterday, so we still need to test them. I have us finishing that around early/mid-March. The good news with Zigbee/Z-Wave is that we can submit everything for certifications earlier than we can with Matter, so we don’t have to wait until the final firmware to do so. The caveat is that we can’t add anything new once we submit it, so I like to go through a couple rounds of firmware testing first so we can add things as we’re testing.
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Here is a video of me testing out the Zigbee Bindings with the switch last night. I apologize for the kids in the background.
I haven’t had a chance to test the Z-Wave version yet, but will install it today and test over the weekend.
Here is my setup:
- Samsung SmartThings
- Switch is a remote only (e.g., not connected to a load – it used to be a switched outlet that I just put the line/neutral into and made the outlet always hot and the switch is just a remote)
- The three bulbs in the distance are Hue bulbs that are connected directly to SmartThings (not the Hue bridge)
- I have the three bulbs group bound to the Zigbee mmWave switch
It’s hard to tell from the video, but I’m about 2-3’ behind the switch when I walk out of the room and then maybe a foot in front of it (to the right) when I walk in. It looks like I’m halfway in the room, but I’m about an arms-length away from it.
When I leave, there’s about a 15-20 second delay, which can be adjusted. When I enter, there is a 1 second delay, which can be adjusted.
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More testing to come, but so far, so good. I haven’t played with the zones or anything yet as @EricM_Inovelli hasn’t received his switch yet, so he hasn’t been able to write the full Edge Driver.
Here are some pics:
Blue Series is on the left, Red Series is on the right.
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Housekeeping:
In regards to the timeline and communication, here’s what I’ve implemented that I will be testing over the course of the next couple months to ensure this is up-to-date and you all have the latest information:
Website: On the product page, there is a Phase chart that will show you exactly where we’re at, what the Phase is all about, and gives an estimated timeline.
Forum: Whenever a date is changed, there will be an auto-post that will show up that gives the date change for both the Phase we’re in as well as the overall delivery date. If it’s a large change, I will also post additional context separately. It will look like this:
Email: Whenever a Phase change has happened (e.g., Tooling to Beta Testing, Beta Testing to Certifications, etc), you will receive a mass email if you’ve subscribed (and double-opted-in) to our product notifications. If you haven’t already, feel free to sign up here (on each product page - or on any page on our site at the very bottom):
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I know I’ve always struggled with updating things in various places and this has been a blind spot for me, so I spent the entire month of December and January working on ways to improve and make things more automated.
How the above works is that I have a main Google Sheet that has all of our products, the Phase their in, and dates and whenever that sheet is changed, it will automatically send that information out to the above platforms.
As I’m not a coder, there will undoubtedly be some mistakes, so bear with me on it.
Yes, the overall timeline has been pushed back a couple months. Long story short, the new manufacturer thought we already had this ETL Certified (as that’s what I told them bc I was under the impression we were too from our original manufacturer) and then they uncovered that it wasn’t and there needed to be a hardware change in addition to the sensor in order to meet safety standards with the mmWave sensor. There was also some interference issues that needed to be resolved that they weren’t aware of and upon testing our original switch, they saw what was causing it and it took some time to fix.
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But, I do feel confident in the new timeline and now that we have the samples (and they seem to be performing really well in my early testing), I feel much better. Fingers crossed.
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Thanks @Eric_Inovelli, appreciate the update!
Could you expand on the timelines a bit? There are quite a few updates and posts with updates, and the product page only gives relative timelines in weeks between stage gates. Could you share what the target is now for shipping wave 1 of production parts in Zigbee and Z-Wave variants?
Thanks!
-Jonathan
The first post has the updated timeline with dates. It calls out mid-May 2025 for shipping to users.
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Rohan,
Thanks for the clarification. I guess the thing that had me confused is the top of that timeline on the first post has a Sept. 26, 2024 as the referenced update and I didn’t know if we’ve pushed the dates below out beyond that reference…
Sorry if I’m being slow or dense, just trying to get clarity in all the noise/changes.
I believe Eric just updated the dates below the V2 Switch Timeline since Tooling has just completed and Beta Testing is beginning now. I believe the September 2024 date referenced there is when Eric announced the V2 of the switch with the new timeline (instead of the V1).
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The Prodcut Details for the Red series are incorrect on the Inovelli website. It shows the Blue series details for most of it. Notably in the Additional Features (ZHA/Zigbee2MQTT), Tech Specs, Documents, and Compatible Hubs.
Hi @Eric_Inovelli! It’s been about 7 months, so I thought I’d check in and see if you had any new information about zones in the mmWave switch. On Jan 24, you posted: “I haven’t played with the zones or anything yet as @EricM_Inovelli hasn’t received his switch yet, so he hasn’t been able to write the full Edge Driver.”
Have you since had a chance to test zones? How do they work? How are the configured? I’m excited to pre-order a 5-pack of these switches for my home, but without zone functionality, I don’t think they will meet my needs. Thanks for the update!
For the initial release, we’re focusing on just one active zone (Zone 4). The switch hardware can support up to four zones, but to keep things simple and stable for launch, we’re sticking with one for now. This helps ensure a smooth experience while we continue refining things behind the scenes.
The active zone (Zone 4) is configurable in 3D space — you can adjust the detection area using parameters 101–106, which set the min/max range along the X, Y, and Z axes. This gives you control over how wide and deep the sensor monitors movement.
There’s also parameter P116, which reports occupancy status for all four zones. However, only Zone 4 is currently enabled — the others will always show as unoccupied for now.
Looking Ahead
In future updates, we plan to support the remaining zones either by adding new configuration options or using a custom command structure to keep it user-friendly.
So yes — zone functionality is coming, but it will come in a future firmware update.
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Is there a plan to release an on/off non-dimmer version of this switch that can power a bathroom fan? Having all the same features as the dinner with a humidity sensor would be nice.
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This is great info. Admitedly I have not read every post in both the Zwave and Zigbee threads. Assuming the switch is at 0/0/0, will the x, y and z axis adjustments be single numbers (ie 8’ to the left or right), or will there be a separate adjustment on each axis for each direction (ie 12’ to the left and 1’ to the right).
My specific use case is in a stairwell, where the installed location of the switch is obviously fixed. I want to detect mostly ONLY in the stairwell, and not when people walk past the base of the stairwell.
Thanks,
Think of the switch as the center of a 3 axis graph. In all 3 axes, you have two controls to set the boundaries (left/right for the x, up/down for the y, and in/out for the z).
This is what it looks like in Zigbee2MQTT (i don’t have a Z-Wave beta switch, but it’s the same options available). Each number is in cm.
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