Zigbee 2-1 Switch (On/Off & Dimmer) | Project New Horizon (Blue Series)

So Hot Right Now Projects & Roadmaps
, ,
#535

Thanks :slight_smile: – that means a lot!

We can definitely take a look at this. There are two different switches and I think you may be talking about the fan/light combo switch (we have a Z-Wave version of it) where there is a wall switch and a canopy module. That one hasn’t started yet, but when we do, I will definitely talk to the manufacturer about it. I remember we looked at this for Z-Wave and I can’t remember why we ended up not going with it. I want to say it added more cost and it was already a $70 switch so we were a little nervous to add this feature.

But, being in a climate where I do reverse my fans (Michigan gets warm in the summer and cold in the winter), I really missed this feature.

The switch that’s coming out in a few months is the normal fan switch (no canopy) and unfortunately wouldn’t have a way to reverse the motor from the switch.

1 Like
#536

This is probably a dumb question but is it possible to install a Zigbee-enabled fan in the ceiling, not have it connect to a wall switch at all and toggle it on and off using the Aux button on a nearby (edit: 2-in-1) switch controlling cans in the same room using a hub like Smartthings?

I’m thinking I’d use a pull cord for speed and the manual switch on the fan’s body to switch direction seasonally.

Would that use case work? Any of the new lines of Zigbee-enabled fans been tested this way yet?

2 Likes
#537

2 Likes
#538

Just fwiw, I don’t know that the use-case specified would be compliant with code? Google is giving me mixed answers, but at least based on this it doesn’t look like that would be acceptable.

2 Likes
#539

I don’t trust anyone saying code requires X without citing code. So many people make new requirements.

But 2020 update has answered the question.

Lights no longer require a switch just a listed wall mounted control.

2 Likes
#540

Hmmm… interesting scenario. If @spen is correct (I’m honestly not sure – we’ve had this debate internally, but we’re not electricians, so I’m going to go with the evidence posted, which looks to be that it’s ok) then it should be possible using scene control.

For example:

  • 2-1 Switch would control the canned lights via a wired connection
  • 2-1 Switch could then use any of the buttons to trigger on/off or if the fan speed could be remotely controlled, you could even use a multi-tap to change speed
    • On/Off = Tap Config Button 1x (toggles each time you press the button)
    • Low = Tap Config Button 2x
    • Med = Tap Config Button 3x
    • High = Tap Config Button 3x

Here’s the full button pressing chart for reference (the above was just an example): 2-1 Switch Button Mapping

However, to answer your question regarding whether or not any of us have tested this, unfortunately we haven’t (I didn’t know ZigBee fans were a thing honestly lol). Can you point me in the direction of the fan you’re looking into and I can do some research? That’s actually pretty exciting.

1 Like
#541

Yes I was talking about the dual fan/Light switch with the canopy module (used to be called project hurricane IIRC)

I just moved from AZ to NH so before I never had a use for reversing the fans but now I defintely will… The fan/Light combo is expensive but it’s two dimming switches in one and also a single gang so worth it. I’d say realistic if it were possible to stay sub $85 it would still be feasible… $80 would still be a decent price point.

1 Like
#542

That’s honestly even MORE than I was hoping for. Even just the on/off (toggle state) without a ‘volume’ adjustment is a win for me.

I’m hoping to use these switches to create a more natural home user experience for my Luddite family who want to just use switches normally. Instead of having two wall switches for lights + fan or even lights + smartblinds, I’ll use a single switch and the aux button via the scene control to toggle the state of the fan or blinds. In the case of the blinds, my automations will have them opening and closing automatically with sunrise / sunset anyways so the aux becomes a simple manual over-ride.

For the fans, it’s true that people might miss changing speed or direction but the former is seldom done and the latter is rarely (seasonally) done so I’m fine using a remote or manual pull cord/switch for those changes when necessary.

Toggle state is all I really need and I’m really glad to hear that works!

#543

One thing I’d point out is if you ever plan to sell the house, consider if you’d take your zigbee setup with you. If so, then you may want to consider keeping away from tight integrations that only work if all the right components are there, or factor in the cost of getting the fan setup more “traditionally” come time to sell.

My previous house had no wall switch for the fan, just RF remote control and pull strings and we were annoyed by it. My current house half the fans are cordless, and the fan motor and lights are on a single switch…and the previous owner passed away before selling and there are no remotes to be found. So now I get to replace 2 - 3 fans because otherwise I have to deal with a fan always on high to have lights.

1 Like
#544

Inovelli’s red fan controller that has been out of stock forever makes a nice replacement for remote controlled fans.

You can also get small dimmer modules that can be shoved into the junction box and controlled via z wave to dim your fan.

#545

I did install the 1 fan controller I had bought a while back for the one potential fan that will stay. The remote ones are extra obnoxious because they are installed in the basement. So I’m going to replace them sooner rather than later. They would have been later if it wasn’t so nonsensical.

#546

Will the Aux switches be sold as a 10 pack as well?

Integrating Zigbee Canless Lights For Entire Home - Juno Connect
#547

I hadn’t planned on it simply bc I figured the demand wasn’t there (I don’t know too many houses with 10x 3-Ways, or even a mix between 3/4-Ways), but I guess it would be helpful for B2B purchases.

Would you like us to sell it in 10pks?

#548

In my house, almost every light is a 3-way or 4-way and a couple 5-ways

I would :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#549

Project Update: A little set-back and this is why I always get nervous opening up pre-orders. However, I’m thankful this happened prior to opening them up vs after.

UL came back with some comments that we had to think through, but ultimately made a decision which I’ll outline below.

We’re getting dinged for claiming our switches work with exhaust and ceiling fans (we’ve tested them and they do, but officially we won’t be able to say it and recommend it) as the fan listing requires a separate UL filing (read: more money).

Here were our options:

  • Continue down the path of UL certification 1472, which covers, “Solid-State Dimming Controls” and remove any marketing, stamping, etc of a fan rating.
  • Submit an additional UL certification using 1917, which covers, “Solid-State Fan Speed Controls” and claim the ability to turn on/off fans (w/no speed control - makes no sense, I know).
  • Go down a path Brilliant went down (as we cited them as an example of someone who has a switch that is UL rated for on/off, dim and fans) and use UL Certification 60730, which covers, “Building Automation Controls & Systems”

The third option intrigued me, but there were trade-offs such as we weren’t able to call our product a dimmer switch, but rather what we could say is that it is a controller that can control dimmable bulbs. This sounds good until you think of it from a marketing perspective where people are searching keywords such as, “Smart Dimmer Switch” or “Dimmable Smart Switch”, etc. If we can’t officially call it a Dimmer Switch, then that’s a huge setback.

The other thing is that we’d have to pay to cancel 1472 and then re-submit under 60730, which would delay us even further.

–

Ultimately we are going to continue down the path of 1472, and launch it with that rating, but once they are in market, we will start the certification for 1917 so we can have two UL ratings on them. Technically the first batch of switches won’t have the rating, so that stinks, but I figured rather than waiting an additional 6wks or so + spend another $25-30k for a niche case, it’d be fine launch as is.

–
So what’s the bad news?

The bad news is now they’re targeting mid-June to finish UL, which puts us at an early July release… Ughhh…

I guess on the bright-side we have more time to perfect our instructions and knowledge-base :unamused:

4 Likes
Blue Series 2-1 Switch - Enhancements/Bugs Thread
#550

1 Like
#551

I need a minimum of 20, and the wait is killing me!

#552

I second epow’s and mamber’s comments. How much would I have to pay to move these switches to the front of the UL certification queue? :joy:

3 Likes
#553

@Eric_Inovelli So the main reason for not pursuing 1917 now is the time delay? Sounds like if you guys are going to spend the money anyways after batch 1 then that part is moot? Yet the batch 1 switches could still unofficially control a fan with on/off only?

Personally I’d love to see a plain on-off fan rated switch (that also dims lights) in the first batch. Perhaps mine is an esoteric use case, but I usually keep my fans at the same speed and don’t care as much about speed control via the switch (would be nice but isn’t a must-have). Mainly I’d love to be able to get in bed and shut off all the household lights and make sure my fan is running with a single command.

#554

You and me both lol – the shelves at Inovelli are filled with bulbs and bulbs only – I’m eating Ramen and Potatoes for dinner, standing on the street corner begging for change over here to keep things afloat!

Maybe $50k? I’ll throw in a free Inovelli polo!

Main reason is time + money. I know it’s embarrassing to say, but after seeing the Insteon announcement, I know we’re not alone in the struggling, so I’ll just put it out there.

This has been a very difficult couple years with supply chain, with late 2021 and early 2022 being extremely crushing. We still don’t have any leads from our Z-Wave manufacturer on when they can expect to get us enough chips. We managed to get some for our B2B customer, but none for ourselves. We’ve been sold out on Z-Wave switches for 6+ months, which means no income.

We’ve had to cut the team down to 4 of us, most of us working 60-80+ hours just to keep this ship afloat with the hope that ZigBee comes through. Every month that goes by with no switches means we keep cutting into our cash reserves, which luckily we’ve managed to keep along with some of our larger B2B clients PO’s.

But our bread and butter – you guys – we have nothing to provide other than bulbs, which no one really buys.

So, when the choice came up to pay an additional $25-30k and delay the project an additional 6-8wks, we made the decision not to pursue it right now as ultimately that’s like $80-100k worth of expenses (overhead + UL costs) and a potential miss of maybe $400-500k of revenue (I know pre-orders are open, but most people are more confident when there’s actual product in stock). Meanwhile, UL has been backed up and while they tell us an additional 6-8 weeks, I don’t trust them bc they’re shutting down entire cities in China (where UL is testing).

We expect the first batch to sell out in a few months and depending on how pre-orders go, we can get the second order before the first one runs out. I’m hoping that if we have a strong pre-order, we can use those profits to pay for the second UL listing and get that off the ground. Who knows, if you guys rally, and UL somehow pulls off the 6-8 week window, it may hit the first batch, but I didn’t want to promise it.

Hope that gives more context?

Trust me when I say from a marketing perspective (my background) it sucks to have to remove a feature and as someone who has a smart switch on an exhaust fan, I’d be semi-upset I couldn’t use it and would have to wait for a dedicated one, so I get it.

Yes, I’ve been using the 2-1 on my ceiling fan for a while now (just replaced it with the fan switch unit).

That’s the kicker – I’m kind of pissed about this bc they keep saying it’s a dimmer switch that can, “act” like an on/off switch, but the fact is we built in a hard, “on/off” that physically cuts the relay. On top of that, they’re making us get a fan speed UL rating? We aren’t even using it for fan speed.

I’ve explained this so many times, but I just don’t think they get it and/or have any prior examples of a switch like this, so they’re just trying to play it safe. I’m not sure.

5 Likes