Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)

Project Update: We’ve received the second round of beta units with the corrections we asked for in the last round. There are still a couple things wrong with it that I’d like to see fixed before we open up tooling.

Next steps are to talk with them tomorrow (Wed) to understand if these couple issues (ground screw plate issue and diffuser issue) are due to the 3D print of the switch or what happened as they were listed on our last round of feedback.

They’ve also loaded on the firmware, so @EricM_Inovelli will be testing the initial firmware so that when we give the official beta units to the testers, it will be 90-95% complete.

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When using these in a Multi way configuration, will all of the switches need to be mmWave models? Or will I be able to use a regular 2-1 switch and a mmWave together (same protocol of course)?

I have some multiway switches where 1 location could make great use of the motion/presence detection features, but the other would be absolutely pointless.

I see no reason why they would all need to be mmWave, the 3-way pairing would be done with Zigbee or via the wiring.

I hope you are right! I just thought I would ask as sometimes different products internal workings might be different enough to not allow different smart switch models to function the same way.

It is a good question. But here is the main thing: You can’t directly use two 2-1 or Linuses or one and one on the same 3 way circuit. You need to use them with Aux switch, or if you want two smart switches on the same circuit, you need to bind them in software.

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You really need to use an Aux switch? I assumed you could use only smart switches based on this link from the manual. (see option 3)

Or is Option 3 done via software and just not mentioned in the setup guide?

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Yes, option number three is done by wiring the load to the switch in the appropriate box. The other switches just get a hot and a neutral. In this configuration, the switches do not communicate via a wired connection. You have to bind them via the hub.

Hi @Eric_Inovelli! Were you able to resolve the issues with the 3D prints with the manufacturer? And do you still think production will happen in the April/May timeframe? I’m very excited for these switches. :slight_smile: Thanks for all of the team’s hard work on them!

Also, if you’re able to share any details on how the mmWave sensor will work that would be awesome too.

Seconding the request for a timeline update. You may want to post to Indiegogo as well - I think folks may be getting restless. Personally, I’ve been holding off replacing some very laggy existing switches in various places in my home for these switches to ship. But - I may need to figure something out if this is too far away. Just needing the info…

Third for the update … considering whether to order the 2-1 and pair with a battery powered motion sensor or if I should wait for the mmWave switch.

I just want to know how to get my flair for backing the indiegogo. I’ve seen others with it, but not me!

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My order status page suggests Eric is just busy packaging up my new fan modules :grinning: which are what I’m targeting for use with this new mmWave switch eventually!

Project Update: Well, this is not going to be a fun one to deliver, but hopefully the transparency and explanation on what’s caused/causing the delay makes sense and in the end is justified.

TLDR: Mass Production has been pushed back to July due to a couple of factors - MG24 Chips are on a backlog due to a shortage (Aqara has been buying them up and they have first priority in the market due to their size – so we’ve had to switch to the MG21), we have found out you won’t be able to upgrade from Zigbee to Matter due to the size of the new Matter stack, we’re working on Zones with the mmWave chip manufacturer (we did not have this spec’d out initially, but wanted to add it due to some limitations with ceiling fans), and, quite frankly, we’re still experiencing growing pains with the new manufacturer.

I’ll try to keep this short, but succinct as I know the TLDR was probably a punch in the face (as it’s been to us over the past couple of months trying to sort through all the challenges).

MG24 Shortage and Inability to Update to Matter

  • MG24 Chip Shortage

    • Unfortunately with the success of Matter, everyone is now purchasing MG24 chips from SiLabs and there is a shortage. As we were about to place the PO for chips, the manufacturer told us they wouldn’t be available until September, which just isn’t feasible for us as the project would be 9 months past its original launch date
    • As this is a new manufacturer for us, they do not have priority in chip purchasing, so this was the best they could do.
  • Inability to Update to Matter from Zigbee

    • This issue has been a real thorn in my side as we’ve been given the runaround by Silicon Labs as to whether or not we’d be able to OTA update from Zigbee to Matter. Long story short, we’ve confirmed with multiple sources that this is now not possible due to space constraints and certification issues across hubs. This put me in a hard spot because this was a major selling point for the Zigbee switches and I’m sure there are quite a few people out there who purchased the Zigbee version based on this information.

SOLUTION: In order to pull back production to July, we’ve decided to make the Zigbee version with the MG21 chip as it has plenty of room for Zigbee code and it’s what the source code given to them was. In addition, we’ve negotiated with the manufacturer to develop a Thread/Matter version at no cost (other than firmware development) using the MG24 (as the new Matter stack will not fit on the MG21). We will also allow you to change your order to Thread/Matter at no cost (as it will be a premium to Zigbee) if this is what you’d like. Please note, however, that the features will not be the same as the Zigbee version as Matter does not support everything yet. For reference, please see this article that explains the difference. We will have the same features as the upcoming Thread/Matter 2-1.

Zone Creation
One of the major concerns this entire time has been the ability for the mmWave chip to work with Ceiling Fans. Eric M and I have been testing the alpha samples and wanted to come up with some sort of solution as it just is very limiting if we were to only set a max distance of something before the ceiling fan (since that would exclude the entire room after the ceiling fan).

Unfortunately, zones are not an, “out of the box” solution with mmWave chips, so we’re having to work with the chip manufacturer to develop something that will work which has also contributed to the delay.

We won’t be able to do anything as complex as the FP2, but we should be able to do something similar to what’s posted below:

In the above picture, we should be able to exclude Zone B. Again, this is something we’re working on, so I will let you know if it changes, but for now, this is what has been promised to us as a solution.

Growing Pains with the Manufacturer
I know this one is more on us as we chose a different manufacturer for this project, so I’ll take the blame here. I didn’t anticipate the learning curve and growing pains to take this long as I’ve worked with three manufacturers over the past 7 years and usually we’re able to get in a good cadence within 5-6 months. This one has taken 9 months, but I think we’re finally at a breaking point and have found our stride.

All this to say, this project is a beast and I know this is the second pushback we’ve had in terms of a deadline, but in the end, I do believe this is going to be a revolutionary switch and I’m really excited about it.

I will share a video shortly of the alpha switches in action – the response time is really great!

Lastly, I will update the above timeline accordingly.

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Ouch. Not a fun one to receive either :frowning:
Thanks for persisting through the troubles. I think I still would rather have this switch, despite the delay and reduced capabilities, over the FP2 to avoid the eye sore of more sensors.

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@Eric_Inovelli Is the z-wave in the same boat for time line?

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Whoops. Replied before reading.

So, I just made a pre-order online. I will need to update my shipping address… and also for the indiegogo campaign.

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Yes, unfortunately. While we don’t have the same chip issues as the Zigbee one, they haven’t really progressed as much as I’d like on the Z-Wave firmware. We are targeting July as well for Z-Wave.

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No worries, we can help. Can you open up a ticket so we can make the changes? Just shoot us your new address and we’ll update it via Inovelli. I believe you can make the change yourself in Indiegogo (I’m not sure we can do it).

Thanks for the update Eric. While the news is a bit of a bummer, I know you guys are doing everything you can to ship this at the highest possible quality. I’m sure this is even more disappointing for you.

Aside from not being able to support Matter, is there anything else the MG21 chip doesn’t support? If not, I’m not too worried.

Thanks for your hard work on zones too. This is something I’m particularly interested in. I don’t have a lot of ceiling fans to worry about, but it’d also be helpful for ensuring that motion through windows or around a nearby corner doesn’t trigger the sensor.

The solution you proposed above is a good starting point. I’m a bit worried about losing all motion in the 4M range though, since that would miss anyone sitting on a couch, bed, or chair under a fan. I don’t expect anything like the FP2, but would there be a way to introduce some sort of grid-based system where we could exclude specific parts of what the switch can see? Maybe a 6x6 grid like this? In this example, red zones would be excluded (imagine the photo is taken from the perspective of the mmWave sensor).

We’d probably need an entity for each part of the grid so we could enable/disable it, which in this 6x6 example would be 36 entities. And there wouldn’t be any way to preview it, so it’d require a bit of fiddling. But at least that would still give us a good amount of control? Just a thought. Having an overall max detection distance (and possibly min too?) is still important as well though so we can exclude a screen on the other side of the room or limit how far the switch senses in larger rooms.

We’re expecting our first child in July and I had hoped to get the new switches installed before then, but it’ll just be a fun project to work on after the fact. :slight_smile: Thanks for all of your amazing work!

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Bummer, bought a bunch of blue switches banking on updating to matter, :confused:… would the mmwave switch be able to at least exclude pets? Like ignore things within a meter off the floor?