Zigbee / Matter Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)

[Gary]

I like Matter matters and I like that it is actually an application layer protocol that has good advantages. I like Matter even more when it uses Wi-Fi as the transport layer.

I donl’t like Thread as there are just too many issues with Thread and the edge routers. Hopefully much of that will be fixed in the near future.

Thread is a transport protocol and as the Thread group as stated, not everyone agrees on how it should be implemented. The documentation is vague in many areas. A big complaint since its creation is edge router interoperability and the inability to control which devices create edge routers.

These two articles pretty much describe the two biggest issues with Thread and why there are so many problems. There have been complaints for years from manufacturers that what works on an Apple edge router does not work on an Amazon edge router and that which works on Amazon does not work on Google.

Then devices from Company A do not mesh with devices from Company D. This all comes from people implementing Thread from the current set of documents.

Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth.

With Matter over WiFi, you and I can take an RPi, Arduino, ESP module or other compatible unit and make our own device that can join the network.

Thread Group is finally fixing Thread border routers

Why Thread is Matter’s biggest problem right now

[rohan]

@Gary

I like Matter even more when it uses Wi-Fi as the transport layer.

Unfortunately, then you have a bunch more devices with low quality Wi-Fi antennas bogging down your network performance and likely all of them have poor information security practices. Sure, you can fix the latter by using vlans and blocking access to the internet, but there’s not much that you can do to fix the performance issues.

[Gary]

I have filled one class C and about a third into a second and it’s all fine and fast. Most of the devices sit idle so it’s not a problem. I have several RPi devices with their own internal network connected to several devices.

I’m just happy I can’t feel all the radiation.

[Gary]

@Eric_Inovelli

Have you been in touch with CSA concerning mmWave in Matter 1.3. When last looked at the current beta mmWave is not yet in the spec.

Gary

[lnjustin]

Wonder what the power consumption of these will be as compared to a simple smart lightbulb. Will it for example save power to have these switches constantly monitoring for presence in order to turn off a single smart lightbulb when nobody is around? Obviously will depend on a lot of variables, but if this thing consumes just as much power as a lightbulb then I can’t see how it would save power. Increase convenience factor for sure, which justifies my purchase alone, but also curious on if there are real power savings possibilities.

[simnick]

Worst case, these are 2w. With optimization, less than a watt. Single 60w led is 7-9w. So 5+ watts. But I’m using these in room with 4-12 led can lights, so that is a whole lot more power.

[Kimorin]

Any updates on pet exclusion/pet mode? absolutely critical for me

[simnick]

What do you imagine pet exclusion mode is? There is a bit of contradiction here, as one of the main features of mmWave is the ability to sense breathing to detect presence, which means it detects tiny movements. Most pets are not tiny.
But sensitivity can be adjusted on these sensors. Do you want it to only detect large movements, bigger than your pet? Do you want it to ignore movement below 40° to ignore short things? What does pet exclusion mean for you?

[Kimorin]

yes that, ignore anything within 1 foot off the floor or something

[hydro311]

I would be very surprised if it has anything like this… I have yet to see any consumer-grade motion-detection product that can reliably & consistently mitigate pet detection, and I wouldn’t expect this mmW switch to be the first.

But who knows - maybe the Erics have a yet-to-be-revealed trick up their sleeve.

[macleg]

Has there been any recent updates on the Blue mm wave switches? I have had these ordered for well over a year now and starting to wonder if they will ever see the light of the day.

edit. Just found the last update from May 7th, my apologies. Although I am curious if the timeline will still be met you were shooting for.

I’m excited, I love the products, but I am getting fatigued at the wait.

[stephen.brown2]

@macleg

Just found the last update from May 7th, my apologies. Although I am curious if the timeline will still be met you were shooting for.

Sounds like it’s time for another monthly update!

[rohan]

Dropping this link here too (I copied in Eric’s latest email into the Red thread): Z-Wave 800 Series Motion Switch | Project Linus (Red Series) - #74 by rohan

[Eric_Inovelli]

Project update: I sent an email our recently that outlined the latest, so if you didn’t get it, here’s what was posted in it:

Hey all,

Quick update about the Blue Series mmWave switch – we will be receiving our beta samples (finally) next week (pictures below) and can finally start beta testing. The good news is that Eric M (CTO) and I have been testing these out for a while now and wanted to get it in a good spot for beta testing. There’s been a lot of difficulties with the mmWave sensor that we had to work through, but we feel ready to let the bigger team start testing.

In addition, the switches have started ETL Certification, FCC Certification, IC Certification and are progressing nicely.

Part of this process also includes setting up a trial-production run, which has been completed.

In terms of the overall timeline, I’ve come to just accept that there will be delays and while any delay we take is disappointing, at the end of the day, I want you guys to have an amazing switch that you’re excited to have in your home. Our standards are, and have always been, extremely high (we put these in our own homes too), so sometimes that can cause initial timelines to become more fluid.

It’s possible we may still hit the July production schedule, but that will all depend on how beta testing goes.

The important thing is that we continue to see progress, which we have. This manufacturer has done things a little differently, in that they like to get as much completed as possible before sending off beta units whereas our other manufacturer takes the approach of building our switches together, which means the first couple iterations may not be on par with our expectations. In other words, the mmWave manufacturer takes the approach of getting their ducks in a row before sending off for us to test and the other one is more of a, “build it as you fly it” type manufacturer. We prefer the latter, but I’m not sure which approach is right/wrong.

Anyway, as always, we appreciate your patience as I know we’re way behind schedule and I know you all are excited about this project.

–

The update is that we received the beta samples and are waiting for an OTA from the manufacturer on some bugs they found with the mmWave sensor itself.

Here are some pics:

25 Z-Wave and 25 Zigbee

–

Overall, the tooling looks/feels great. If you didn’t know, you wouldn’t be able to tell these came from a different manufacturer than our current 2-1/Dimmer switch.

I did have some feedback for them, which is outlined below. It should be an easy fix.

Overall, the switches look really good and feel really good. Nice job! There are a few minor things to change and make sure it’s ready for production:

Air-Gap needs to be level with the outer frame:

If you’re looking at the switch, the top left side screw needs to be red

If you’re looking at the switch, both screws on the right side need to be black

The ground screw plate still wiggles – it shouldn’t wiggle at all

The ground screw should be green

The ground screw plate should not be visible when the ground screw is fully loosened. It should look like our current switches

For the Zigbee version, the back part should be blue as shown below:

For the Z-Wave version, the back part should be red as shown below

Two sections below should be flush similar to the current samples

The stopper on the screw is too loose and falls off easily so we’ll need a tighter one.

–

So, the next step is beta testing, which will really determine when these will be released. As stated in the email, I know we’re really far behind schedule and it sucks. But at the end of the day, this is the first switch of its kind and I want it to be something we’re all proud of. I’m excited to see progress and it is a major milestone in the project to have beta samples where tooling is basically completed.

Let’s all rally around there being a great beta test!

Edited to add: if you haven’t been receiving status update emails, please make sure to sign up for them here: mmWave Presence Sensor Smart Switch (Radar Equipped Millimeter Wave) – Inovelli

Scroll down to after where it says, “Pre-order” and look for this section:

[nanderson97]

Love the detailed update! Was just thinking about these this morning, can’t wait to have one in my hands.

[nugget]

I’m frustrated but sanguine about the delays. It’s more important to me that you get a good switch designed and built, and the delays facilitate that.

[Daniel15]

Those engineering samples are looking pretty good!

Very small nitpick on the box art: 1,000's shouldn’t have an apostrophe in it (should just be 1000s).

[mraz.camren]

When do you expect the MG24 version of the switch to be available?

[jpoet]

My plan was to use the presence detection to control the climate in various parts of the house. Part of that includes if the ceiling fan should be on or not. If the ceiling fan being “on” results in “presence” being detected then these will not do much for me.

The most critical situation would be my living room where the couch sits right below the ceiling fan. Therefore, the distance is about equal between the fan and the various seating positions on the couch.

The only way I can see to solve this, is if vertical angle information is available so I can exclude the presence information when the angle is to high…

Pretty much every room in my house has a ceiling fan and I use them.

As soon as it is know if this problem can be solved or not, please let me know so I can cancel my order if necessary.

Thanks!