Zigbee Motion Switch | Project Linus (Blue Series)

[meadows]

The MG24 can run Matter; however, I think there is not enough space on the MG24 to fit the Zigbee firmware and store the Matter firmware file as required for an OTA update. Eric made it sound like there are also other certification and and such issues.

[Eric_Inovelli]

@MasterDevwi

but would there be a way to introduce some sort of grid-based system where we could exclude specific parts of what the switch can see? Maybe a 6x6 grid like this? In this example, red zones would be excluded (imagine the photo is taken from the perspective of the mmWave sensor).

This is definitely something we wanted and proposed, but it’s my understanding the mmWave sensor is not capable of being that granular. We were unfortunately limited in what we could choose for mmWave sensors due to needing it to fit underneath a paddle

But I should know more once we are in beta testing!

@Kimorin

would the mmwave switch be able to at least exclude pets? Like ignore things within a meter off the floor?

We are still analyzing this – this was in our spec to them. I should know more once we start beta testing and really tweaking the firmware.

We are now also working with the mmWave sensor manufacturer to have them modify the code on their device, so I know they’re willing to listen to us and work with us. Which is a step in the right direction as the last mmWave sensor (the initial one) manufacturer lied to us about their specs and then when we started testing, we uncovered what they promised wasn’t true so we had to start from scratch.

@stephen.brown2

Could probably take some clues from the EP Lite:

Yes, this is a great one to look at for sure. The luxury they have, however, is they aren’t tied to a sensor that can fit underneath a paddle. But, hopefully we can get the mmWave sensor manufacturer to look at this and add the code to their sensor if they can.

@TheUser

Thanks, I suppose I meant in a reasonable amount of time. Really I’m trying to determine if it’s worth waiting based on time and not features. Also hoping that I could just switch over to zwave if it’s too far in the future.

So far, I would say the Thread/Matter version would be released in August/September based on what we’ve heard about the MG24’s. But, that’s my best guess at this point. I wish I had a crystal ball and not have to keep sharing these setback emails/comments

@Kimorin

If the simple distance based solution is indeed the final solution I’m afraid I would have to request a refund and cancel my order

We’re definitely trying out best and I completely understand if it doesn’t work out. This is the hard part about being first with a product, we just don’t know what we don’t know going in and have to base our sales material on what the manufacturer tells us is possible. Unfortunately, they’re not always truthful, which stinks bc we’re the ones then that have to backtrack.

At the end of the day, we want you to be happy with your purchase, so I completely understand if a refund is needed.

@kyle11111

If for the z-wave version firmware is the only issue, would releasing the hardware now and having a firmware update in the future be feasible? i.e. they would act as 2-1 switches (with lux sensor) for the time being, and in the future have mmWave be activated?

While I’d like to do this, unfortunately a major portion of our customers uses SmartThings which doesn’t allow OTA updates on Z-Wave, so they’d have no way to update their switches

@forbes400

Does this mean ALL switches with MG21 will not be upgradeable to Matter? If we want to upgrade to Matter down the road does this mean we should wait for the MG24 versions?

@Emalton

I would prefer to wait until the MG24 version so we can upgrade Zigbee to Matter. I would think this would be preferred for most and worth the wait.

This is what it’s looking like unfortunately. We’re working with our other manufacturer to find a solution, but at this time it seems like SiLabs has completely changed their stance on being able to update anything, even on MG24’s (which also sucks for us because we’ve been paying a premium to get the MG24’s on all new Zigbee devices only to find out it now may not be possible). My advice would be if you want Thread/Matter to wait for any Thread/Matter device. I know this puts some people in a predicament who purchased the Zigbee version and we’re trying to figure out a best way to help facilitate an update if possible.

@meadows

This is what I understood his post

• MG21 are too small to run Matter.
• Even with the MG24 Zigbee cannot be updated to Matter due to how large matter stack is

If you want Matter then you should get them to change your order to the Matter version.

Yes, exactly – thanks for summarizing it for me, I’ve never been good at using few words!

@meadows

I understood that to mean OTA updates for Zigbee to Matter are not possible - even with the MG24. If you want Matter then you should change your order to Matter.

Delaying the Zigbee version so it can use a newer chip that still cannot be updated to Matter OTA will just make the people who want Zigbee(such as me) sad.

Yes, this is why we’re switching to the MG21 chip and creating a separate Thread/Matter switch. By using the MG21, we can move the timeline up (it was originally bumped back to September based on the MG24) so we can release the Zigbee switches “quicker” (I know we’re way behind timeline, so that’s why I quoted quicker).

@forbes400

Thanks for sharing. I didn’t understand the message to mean MG24 wouldn’t be upgradeable to Matter as the White switches use MG24. I guess there’s confusion around this point.

@meadows

The MG24 can run Matter; however, I think there is not enough space on the MG24 to fit the Zigbee firmware and store the Matter firmware file as required for an OTA update. Eric made it sound like there are also other certification and and such issues.

Yes, @meadows is correct! Basically, in order to upgrade from Zigbee to Thread/Matter, you have to keep some of the Zigbee firmware on the device to facilitate the upgrade. With having Zigbee + the large Matter firmware, there’s just not enough room at this point. We’re looking into a solution that will have you do the following:

• Start with your current Zigbee Firmware
• Flash a very small Zigbee Firmware on the device so that there is a ton of room freed up
• Flash a very small Thread/Matter firmware file on there (so now there are two very small files – one Zigbee and one Thread/Matter)
• Then upgrade to the final Thread/Matter firmware file

This is all theory, however, and right now we’re focusing on finishing up the project before trying to tackle this. Rather than promising this is going to be possible, I just figured it would be better to release a separate Thread/Matter switch to begin with if so that you can choose it if Thread/Matter is important to you (and no longer delay the Zigbee device for those that wanted Zigbee).

Hope that makes sense?

[forbes400]

Thanks for the update!

I appreciate walking into a room and having the lights auto turn on but I don’t want the lights to auto turn on when I’m watching a movie. Is there a way to disable the auto turn-on feature either permanently or temporarily? Another example might be one of my children doesn’t want the lights auto turning on but I’d still like the sensor to auto shut off the lights.

[SViel]

@forbes400

Is there a way to disable the auto turn-on feature either permanently or temporarily?

This is easily done with a Home Automation Hub. I have very similar automations setup in Hubitat.

[forbes400]

These would be my first smart switches so I’ve no experience using the hub. Is there ever any delay between the switch and hub so that the lights may turn on briefly and then shut back off after the hub provides the rule?

[hydro311]

There shouldn’t be, but it’ll ultimately depend on your hub and how you set up the switch and associated rules.

[cscott]

All comes down to how you configure it and the firmware options. Your best solution will be to take the motion event that is created and have that in your home automation platform. That would be Home Assistant, Hubitat, SmarThings…etc… depends on your preferences and abilities. For the movie theater scenario, you will need to have a way to know that something is playing. If you were using an Apple TV for example, then you would also add that to your home automation to get the status.

So, you enter the room and there is nothing playing and the lights are off and you get a presence event from the mmWave switch. Turn on lights.

Start any media on Apple TV…automation triggers and after say 1 minute then auto dim lights to preferred setting, perhaps off, and do not run the presence detection options since the Apple TV is playing media.

Apple TV is paused, bring up lights to setting and re-enable the presence sensing automations.

[forbes400]

Thanks for sharing, that sounds cool! I use Firestick and just started using Home Assistant so I’m not aware if HA knows it’s playing but I love the concept and will have to investigate.

[stephen.brown2]

You’re in for a whole world of wonder. Follow the white rabbit.

There is a Fire TV integration, which you’ll connect HA to the Fire Stick with ADB: Amazon Fire TV - Home Assistant

And you’ll probably find a ton more integrations for your things… but I digress. Welcome to Home Assistant!

[sturtester]

Hello Eric,

I was looking at the article you linked about the 2-1 Matter Switch, but it appears that the Matter switch does not have the mmWave presence sensor. If we “upgrade” from Zigbee to Matter, will the Matter switch, projected to be released in September, include the mmWave presence sensor?

Also, are we only able to upgrade from Zigbee to Matter for orders placed directly on Inovelli’s website, or can we upgrade IndieGoGo campaign contributions/rewards as well? I placed a total of three orders: one for Zigbee on Inovelli’s website, one for Zigbee as a campaign contribution on IndieGoGo, and one for Z-Wave on Inovelli’s website. Due to the fact that I have so many smart switches in my house, I was thinking of changing the IndieGoGo Zigbee “order” to Matter since that had ten switches instead of the five I ordered later on from Inovelli’s website.

[Gary]

Eric,

A friendly reminder that you are three months behind on the mandatory Indiegogo updates.

Also, have you been in contact with Michel Kohanim at UDI concerning the matter of these wonderful new switches and Matter?

Also also, the 15 switches I ordered can wait as I might want to move to Matter if it matters. If it doesn’t matter for Matter we will dicuss the Matter matter when it matters.

[Gary]

@Eric_Inovelli

we just don’t know what we don’t know going in

A former employer and good friend once said, “If I knew what we were doing right, we’d do more of it.”

[sdholden]

So is there an official White Series Matter version of this motion/presence switch now? I see suggestions of switching your order to the matter version if you really want matter since an upgrade from zigbee might not be possible, but I don’t see anything about a White Series version to switch to.

[rohan]

Yes, a Thread / Matter version is in development but will be released several months later than the Zigbee and Z-Wave ones.

Youll need to contact support by raising a ticket to get your order moved over. I don’t think they’ve opened up a store page for it yet.

[jessejames]

Youll need to contact support by raising a ticket to get your order moved over.

I’ve been trying for a couple of weeks to reach anyone at Inovelli support, but the Ira ChatGPT help bot is obviously designed to intentionally deflect support cases, and even after finally manipulating the thing to allow me to submit a case, the support ticket queue appears to have no human monitors. Emails to the contact@ alias also go unanswered - how do we get a hold of an actual person to get our order moved over?

[rohan]

It’s usually monitored by @Courtney_Inovelli, though sometimes tickets can pile up. Inovelli is only a small company (~4 people).

[TheUser]

I’m quite confused. Will anything be sent out to backers to switch to the matter version?

[stephen.brown2]

@rohan

sometimes tickets can pile up. Inovelli is only a small company (~4 people).

This explains why I still haven’t gotten my backer flair here yet…

Update: thanks for attending to my very important user badge needs.

[Courtney_Inovelli]

We don’t really have a process yet to get orders switched over to matter/thread. More than likely I’m just going to create a spreadsheet and write peoples names down. I have a list of about 10-15 people so far but yes unfortunately haven’t been able to get to them. We get hundreds of tickets per day and try our best between the 3 of us to keep up with them.

[TheUser]

Thank you for your work. Does that mean I’m ok to wait on that process or should I open a ticket.