That’s Project Don’t Go Chasing Waterfalls. PRD isn’t quite finished yet.
I can’t image trying to squeeze the gfci circuitry into the outlet.
No GFCI required. It can be powered by a super-capacitor, recharged by a little turning water wheel inside the housing when the faucet is running…
The buttons would also be difficult to impossible to press with two 3-prong cords connected.
It’s always important to learn what the competition has done and innovate. https://youtu.be/3FE-4fZX7nM
Project update – we got some quotes back and I have some great news. Price point is pretty good for what we’re getting. Here’s what we’ve settled on:
- It will utilize GaN PD technology
- Dual smart outlets w/dual energy monitoring (each 16A)
- 30W+ USB-C charging (this was a major upgrade from the 15W they originally sent in their specs)
- Tamper/Wet resistant rated
- All of the hardware requirements listed in the original post
The only thing that may change depending on PCB layout is the switched outlet compatibility. As of right now, it’s included, but here were their comments:
“Two travel terminals need to be added to the socket, which will occupy the structural space of the socket, and will be discussed in detail when designing.If there is no space for design, it is recommended to remove this feature;”
Right now it’s spec’d to work with a, “dumb” switch, an, “aux” switch and a smart switch using Zigbee Bindings (this will still be possible if we end up having to remove this feature).
Also, the USB-C unfortunately cannot be remotely controlled due to the following reason (sorry, it’s broken English):
“about smart USB-C, the current USB fast charging road chip does not enable the pin, if you want to achieve USB-C switchable, can only increase the relay control AC input to achieve, which needs to increase the cost and volume, the current volume is not enough”
–
Based on the price they gave us, I would assume this would come in at around $50 USD.
I’ll go through and respond to the wishlists presented above now that I have a more firm idea of what we can do.
Amazing!
I asked about this (used your exact words haha) and this was their response:
about smart USB-C, the current USB fast charging road chip does not enable the pin, if you want to achieve USB-C switchable, can only increase the relay control AC input to achieve, which needs to increase the cost and volume, the current volume is not enough
Sounds like we were able to get USB-C PD with GaN technology. Regarding the wattage, it’s coming in around 30W (which was much higher than they originally told me - 15W). It could come in actually higher than 30W as they said they’d have to test it, but they said at a minimum it would do 30W.
I tried… seems like it’s not possible with the space and also the workaround I tried that @j4cbo mentioned. It will be able to detect when something is put in it, but unfortunately won’t be able to be controlled remotely with all the other features.
Ask and we shall deliver – thanks for the suggestion!
This is now officially spec’d for weather resistance (idk the IP rating, but we asked for a weather resistant rated outlet)!
Good news, we have this quoted with individual energy chips for each outlet
Hmmm… maybe I should raise the price – I think we could get away with selling the Zigbee version for $50.
Done!
I’ve asked about this and they assured me they will study commercial outlets. I’ll send them some as well to make sure they are on par.
I asked about this as well and here was their response:
Now, I don’t know if that’s just them not wanting to do it or if it truly can’t be done, but they’ve been pretty honest with us, so I think he’s telling the truth.
I think this can be done via energy monitoring and an automation, right? Maybe we can just build it in locally too.
There’s overload protection if that’s what you’re referencing?
Perfect, we’ve added this! The LED Bar has physical buttons on either side that you can push to turn on/off the outlets.
It will be one strip, but each side will have buttons built into the LED strip that are individually controllable like our switches.
Just want to clarify that this will be rated for outdoor use and will have USB-C

I worry a little bit about physical buttons on the switch for controlling the power state of the outlets. This seems like something that could be hit by accident by a power brick or something else large plugged into the outlet. I know I’ve done this with GFI outlets more than once…
Great call-out. I think we’d plan on having the buttons flush with the rest of the outlet, so it shouldn’t interfere.

While the center positioned USB-C port is cool, I will say I have a couple of these outlets that have dual PD-65W USB-C ports positioned at the top of the outliet above the plugs and they are very nice as they are almost never obstructed by large plugs
Hmmmm… tempting. My only pushback would be that I think we’re maxed out with space at the moment and also I’m not sure where the push button and LED bar would go (possibly in the middle where it says, “Class 2 65W Max”) but I’m not sure if the PCB will allow it. I’ll look into it as I do like the functionality of that outlet.

After seeing the last few posts above, I have a concern that the proposed center-mounted USB-C port would be obstructed if two standard 3-prong (grounded) plugs were to be used in this layout…
I’ll definitely notify the engineers of this concern!

I am very curious how this will work. Wouldn’t the device need to contain two entirely separate copies of all the smart electronics if you’re doing dual smart outlets and breakable bus bars? i.e. two zigbee radios each controlling one outlet instead of one zigbee radio controlling two outlets?
@mharris1984 explained this perfectly!

Really? That hasn’t been my experience…
Dang, that’s impressive – and their USB-A’s and their vertical! Gives me hope the horizontal USB-C will be fine.

I’d like to put in a vote for a zwave version! Don’t leave us out of the cool stuff!
I put a request for a quote out for Z-Wave and Thread/Matter. Idk why they didn’t include it in the initial quote, but hopefully we’ll see it this week.

The most pressing question is whether the marketing photos should show it ground up or ground down. (Psst… it should be down.)
You know, I didn’t anticipate watching that video in its entirety, but man did he make it interesting lol. Being the marketing guy and caring way too much about aesthetics, I would definitely only show the plug with ground down bc I think ground up just looks ugly haha. I was glad to hear from the video that it can be either way. Thanks for sharing!

Also, I don’t see Zigbee binding in the requirements. Seems like it should definitely be in there? I’d also add maybe implement the Zigbee capability to change channels.
It should be in there, but if not, then yes, we definitely will have this

Also, is there any ideas for a side-by-side implementation where you have 2x wall outlets next to each other? That’d give you more space for PCB items, would there be any benefits to have a “side car” module that would add more functionality that needed more space?
Interesting! Do you mean create an outlet that is like two outlets combined?

As a more realistic option, a “hard” power reboot button or tab would be nice. Having to go to the breaker box to reset devices is frustrating. In other words, some way to remove power from the device temporarily without having to fiddle with the wiring, or having to go to the circuit breaker for the whole circuit and turning the power off.

Yes! I have some Leviton (I think) receptacles and I’ve had to flip the break multiple times in the last month when they stop responding after I make a change to my zwave network.
Mmmm… very interesting. So something like our, “air gap switch” that is on our current switches? That’s an interesting idea and I can definitely see the need for one.
For those that don’t know, the air gap allows you to pull it out and disconnect power from the load.
EDIT: Should’ve read further down – @mamber called the air gap out lol. Let me see what I can do with the manufacturer. I think this is a great idea.

Also, I didn’t see it mentioned, but Leviton now has a 60W USB-C outlet as well: Amazon.com
I can’t tell, is this a smart outlet? Sure is priced like one lol.

Fingers crossed @Eric_Inovelli can wave his magic wand and get at least 60W in Project Jambry.
My hand must have gone limp… I wasn’t able to get 60W, but was able to get 30W, which was double what they initially came back with. I’m guessing all the smarts of the switch and dual relay’s are getting in the way.

For me, my requirements are fairly simple:
- Independent Zigbee/Z-Wave outlet control
- Independent outlet power monitoring
- Commercial grade contacts (See https://youtu.be/kX6xnOksQTc?t=164 for a comparison between “residential” grade and “commercial” grade outlet internals. Obv. the commercial grade is more expensive, but will last a lot longer)
If Eric can nail those at a reasonable price point ($30-$50/unit), I will want to buy as many as possible to replace the most used outlets in my house.
I think I got them all – the top two for sure with the third one being one I’ve requested and will only send them commercial grade samples.
Sorry I’m at the top of your price-point, but at least I’m within range lol.

Bonuses include almost everything else listed:
- USB-C outlet (I don’t need to plug in a USB charger everywhere, and when I do I usually have a wall adapter anyways)
- RGBW LED bar (While the LED bar is great on the switches, outlets will more often be in harder-to-see places, and far below eye level, so much less useful for notifications/dim level, etc)
- And so on.
Boom, nailed it for you haha!

But seriously though, how difficult would it be to make a motion-sensing kitchen sink faucet that can display notifications, has a temperature readout, can be controlled remotely, and most importantly reports water usage back to the user’s HA platform du jour?
This is seriously an un-tapped market (pun intended)…
You know what they say, “if you build it, they will come” – if anyone can pull it off it’s this community, so I’ll put it on the list bc I actually think that’s a really cool idea! Will most likely have to be a Kickstarter though haha.

That’s Project Don’t Go Chasing Waterfalls.
Oh heck yeah lol
Fun fact, when I was a kid, I thought they were saying, “Jason Waterfalls”. I thought it was a cool name haha.

It’s always important to learn what the competition has done and innovate. https://youtu.be/3FE-4fZX7nM
Love it, thanks for sharing! I watched the video and I think he’ll be blown away when we send him one of ours!
@sixo, @UngluedChalice – do you think something like this would work? I have no clue if they can do it with the PCB layout, but I can ask.
Essentially a button of some sort at the bottom left of the outlet. Either a push-in (and it would pop out) or a pull-out button to disconnect power.
That would work, but the current shape and size of your switch air gaps would work better IMHO (easier to get a fingernail under, though if it’s a push button what you showed is fine), and would match the “Inovelli look” better too.
Are you able to do invisible shutters on the TR parts?
For reference see here
That would be amazing, I didn’t know those existed. Is it just like see-through plastic or something (rather than the tinted ones that we’re used to)?

That would work, but the current shape and size of your switch air gaps would work better IMHO (easier to get a fingernail under, though if it’s a push button what you showed is fine), and would match the “Inovelli look” better too.
Yeah I thought about this, but I think I’d have to move the outlets closer to each other to achieve that, right (which may be of concern when plugging in two devices as mentioned earlier in the thread)?
Idk, what do you think?
Ah, I wasn’t thinking of carrying the bar all the way across the bottom, just making the little tabbar skinnier and longer so that it came almost to the ground hole on the bottom, same dimensions as the current tab on the switches otherwise. But maybe I’m not thinking of the right thing.
Like this?
You’d pull it out similar to the switch.
Yeah, that’s much closer to this design.
I think what @sixo what refrencing was a side loading option if you had a two/three/more gang box where you are installing 2 outlets into and being able to do something like “snap” them together and so you just hook up the power lines up to a single terminals and then screw it in without haveing to play with distance between for a multigang and when you snap together they already are prefect two or more gang spacing for the cover to snap on perfect.
Or maybe make a 2 gang modular line of products? where you have a switch with a side load terminal or outlet and have a series of accessories to take place in the 2nd gang space… i.e. IAQ sensors, second switch, touch screen to setup soft buttons/swtiches, barro/humid/temp sensor stack, etc… Or just the ability to snap together multiple switches and outlets and or a combo of switches and outlets together (say like above a work bench where you have switches and outlets together at desk level). I kinda like the idea of being able to do this with a line of products.
Is it possible to have two USB-C ports at 30W each? If that’s not possible, maybe 15W each when both ports are used, and 30W when one of them is used
IMHO, I’m not really an athestetics person. Y’all seem to do a much better job with that than me. In terms of the air-gap, if the desired location (or any visible location) is -not- possible for some reason, something underneath the faceplate would be better than nothing at all. Turning the breaker off is just the worst.
Oh geez, I just watched the Eve video. Please don’t have three wires hanging out of the device. Give us the “quickwire push-in” or whatever it is that allows you to just shove the house wiring into the device. If you are going to send out a device with 3 wires dangling out of it, send us some Wago-like connectors (wire nuts stink). Solve the whole problem for us!