Just chiming in to say that I definitely agree with everyone that we need some sort of engineer to verify everything. I think the problem we run into is twofold:
Where do I find someone that we would only need for a few hours here and there? We can’t afford a full time engineer and honestly I’m not sure we would have the project(s) to take up 40hrs/wk
Overhead – this is the big one – right now we just simply cannot afford an engineer and have been trying to get by without one as, for the most part, China has done a great job.
Now one can argue that we can’t afford not to get someone and that’s where I’m at right now. I know we need someone, but where do we find one? And find one that we can also trust?
If I’m being completely open here, COVID and the last couple years has done some incredible damage to cashflow which we’re finally starting to get out of. But, there’s still a ways to go. I won’t bore everyone with the nitty gritty, but the gist of it is that we’re trying to climb out of the back-order/pre-order cycle where we place an order for product, but by the time it gets here, it’s all sold out and the cycle continues.
We do much better cashflow-wise when we’re fully in stock and unfortunately due to us being out of stock, we’re running lean and we’ve had to watch every nickel/dime (I’m exaggerating, but also not really).
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Just trying to paint a picture right now of where we’re at.
So how do we solve this?
Well, there are a couple of options, but I’m open to any and all feedback:
We have a group of passionate community members who have a background in engineering who can verify and we compensate them somehow – be it free product, an hourly rate, or something
We wait it out a bit until we’re in a better place capital-wise – I’m hoping based on some insider info that we will be out of this mess within the next few months, but you never know. I feel like I always am saying that and something inevitably comes up.
Option one is definitely a good place to start and then expand into option two as capital becomes available. I’ve had the privilege of helping beta test the latest set of switches and there are some very knowledgeable community members volunteering their time. Personally i find it enlightening (snicker) and I’ve learned a bunch from the other members.
I really appreciate how candid you have been in your responses here. It’s not my decision to make, but I would argue that you are NOT clear enough in the marketing for what the switch is and is not capable of. You are marketing to the DIY community, who doesn’t always necessarilly know (or care to look at) the difference between the wattage ratings of switches. They will assume that an on/off switch would be capable of supporting anything a normal on/off switch would. And IMO an on/off switch SHOULD. I understand you look at Zooz as your competitor and they have made a market selling products at a cheap price point.
However, I don’t think looking at the lowest common denominator and trying to emulate them is a good path to success. It’s more valuable to look at what the long-time players in the switch industry are doing. Leviton’s on/off switches are designed to support 15A hardwired outlets. In fact, I struggle to think of scenarios where I would want an on/off switch that isn’t capable of doing that. What you have is a switch (actually dimmer) that is ONLY capable of lighting, and if that’s what you are after you need to make it 100% clear that it does not support anything other than lighting.
People will do inevitably things they shouldn’t, despite any warnings. If you aren’t 100% clear of the switches capabilities, when someone’s switch melts (or the house burns down), whose reputation is on the line? Do you think “well the tech specs say it only supports 600W LEDs, and there is a UL number that they should have looked up listed” is a valid defense?
I know I’m one of the few naysayers here, but I’m not trying to be a complete downer. I love what you guys are doing and want to see you succeed.
I will add that I consider myself fairly tech-savvy and I incorrectly assumed that the 2-1 would be capable of numerous on/off duties around the house. I’m sure there are plenty of others that made or will make the same mistake. I was hoping to go all in with your products, and now am trying to figure out what I should do. Having mismatches switches drives me crazy, and you don’t offer a true on/off, so I need to look elsewhere for that and it’s unfortunate.
Not true. Only the 15A On/Off switch is rated for 15A; 1500W incandescent or 3/4 HP motor loads. Model: D215S-2RW
However, look really close at the Safety notes found in all their manuals (15A or non-neutral switch). Here’s the a screenshot directly from the 15A model manual.
So yes, their 15A SKU can support up to 15A, but it is not meant to control a receptacle as noted. If a house burned down an due to someone used a large amperage load and caused the switch to catch fire; insurance would investigate and find the end user installed the product incorrectly. It does not follow NEC regulations and they would not have to pay out money for the repairs or replacement. He or she could attempt to sue the company, but he or she would not have a good case against the company. It is clearly identified in the manual and misuse of the product is not the companies fault.
I know I’m about to start a flurry of responses with this, but I wanted to at least keep everyone in the loop of what we’re testing against some of these concerns.
I’ll start with the first one because I’m not quite ready to discuss the second one as we’re still tweaking and testing.
One of the concerns is this switch needs to be capable of turning things completely on and off in order to be called an on/off switch.
We have been testing a parameter that allows for a full sine wave and I personally had a situation where I have a florescent ballast in my closet that hummed like crazy when I put the switch on it – even in on/off mode.
Testing the, “full sine wave” parameter eliminated all the humming and the light works as intended.
A few notes before watching the videos:
You’ll have to turn up the volume on the first one to hear the buzzing – I can try to get a better one tonight, I was just excited to test it yesterday
I still had the 500ms delay on so keep that in mind
I am talking weird bc I was trying to be quiet – I swear I’m not creepy
I found out about this parameter when I was in the basement and immediately went upstairs to test it out and when I say immediately, I mean I ran up both flights of stairs so I was out of breath (I tested it with full sine wave first, that’s why I’m panting like crazy in the second video, but normal in the first)
Before (No Full Sine Wave)
After (Full Sine Wave)
After some further testing, we plan to roll this out as a beta firmware. We still stand by the fact that it’s not UL rated for exhaust or ceiling fans and for safety concerns, these should not be used on outlets, but this should at least help with some buzzing and other lights that don’t fully turn off.
EDIT: Forgot to share the oscilloscope reading of this:
Not sure what you mean. Full Wave is not available with dimming. Unless you’re thinking about the other feature which Eric hasn’t publicly announced yet
Any news on this? For what it’s worth, I’d rank my wishlist:
Dim lower: I have a 30W LED fixture in my bedroom (the kind with a bunch of LED chips on a circuit board); at the lowest dimming level, the switch reports 0.2W power consumption, but I’d guesstimate that it looks as bright as a 40W incandescent. I was hoping for somewhere around a 4W night light level. (And no, it’s not 100x as bright at full power )
Full sine wave output in on/off mode: sounds like this done!
And barely making my list, trailing edge dimming: my lights all work fine with leading edge, so I’m completely fine with trailing edge not being possible. But it does seem to be the better method in general.
Is there an update on the issues discussed here? In really struggling to get these switches to dim anything smoothly - I’ve already tried 4 different styles of LED bulbs and all have exhibited undesirable characteristics that I’m hoping will at least be partially resolved by the various fixes that have already been discussed in this thread.
I’m coming from a bunch of TP-Link Kasa dimmers that I got fed up with and I was really looking forward to these new switches, but the dimming capabilities definitely have some room for improvement.
Looking forward to hearing what the new feature is as well!
I’m also bumping this topic. I have a pile of Blue switches ready to go into a new build, and there’s a part of me that’s worried I will one day be pulling out everything that needs to dim and getting Lutron Caseta instead. Every LED bulb and fixture I’ve used with a blue switch in dimming mode on my bench test unit has unacceptable flickering and buzzing. These switches contain the hardware to properly dim an LED light, but have been designed to sacrifice ideal dimming in order to maintain non-neutral installation capability instead. I hope there can be a future firmware update to make these actually workable as dimmers in the modern lighting world. The on/off function works well, but the other issues raised in this thread have me worried about longevity of the switches and fixtures even in that mode. I love all the smart features, and the look, but this is a huge achilles heel. My old Inovelli Red dimmers were never functional as dimmers for all the same problems, so I’ve been using them as generic smart switches instead. I was hoping the Blue would have solved that limitation.
I have one switch controlling 9 recessed incandescent lights – accidentally dimmed them to full brightness for more than a few minutes and something in the switch shorted – it was behaving very similar to another post above where the switch was stuck “on” and could not be turned off or dimmed, even after factory reset. Does anyone have a recommendation on LED replacements that will play nice with the leading edge dimming tech on these switches? These lights are 20 feet up and difficult to change, so I prefer to get it right the first time Alternatively, I would entertain replacing all 9 lights with zigbee lights, but not sure how stable it would be for the switch to bind to 9 lights in a high ceiling.
I recently moved to a new home and took all my switches with me! I have about 20 (err… 19 since I accidentally destroyed one of them) Inovelli Blue series switches (the only zigbee devices I have) and another 50-60 Z-Wave (some Inovelli, some Jasco, some other) switches. I’ll need to purchase another 30-40 switches to complete everything (I haven’t actually counted but there’s a LOT of switches) – should I wait on matter? The cost to replace everything later if matter ends up becoming dominant could very well cause marital problems
I need some switches that are purely relay – use cases I have
a) flourescent lighting (actually I’m not sure about this… can 2-1 work here?)
b) exhaust fans – no need to dim, prefer simple on/off relay switch
c) my master bath has a heater with fan in the ceiling controlled by a switch… I assume this would have to use a switched relay tech and is not suitable for either the Fan or Light swtiches?
d) what about heat lamps? Any switches that can control these?
Is it just me, or does zigbee seem to work better than zwave? I’ve found my zwave network to be very unreliable despite having many devices to make the mesh strong.
You know, you might be at or exceeding the 600W incandescent limit, and could have fried it. You should probably not hook up a new dimmer until you swap with LEDs.
I haven’t gotten my blues yet, so cannot recommend a specific bulb for dimming. But 20 feet in clear air is no big deal for zigbee. Number of walls is what matters.
Most smart switches aren’t rated for those loads, including Inovelli’s. I’d look at using a smart relay rated for your load in the heater box. You’ll have to look to see what the heater draws and then find dry contact relay that can handle it. Control the relay with Inovelli scene commands.
The upcoming Inovelli fan switch will handle bathroom fans. It’s also designed for ceiling fans, so it has speeds, but depending on the driver, you ought to be able to keep it on high.
Maybe sooner or later. Inovelli is working on a fix for the Blues so that it is a pure relay switch in the on-off mode. I’d wait to see how that shakes out.
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