Not sure if it’ll support connecting the canopy module through the load of the switch. It would still have an issue supporting motor loads through the switch; not really solving the issue. Normal wiring would have you connect the line directly to the canopy module (either in switch box or at fan box depending on wiring). Then you would bind the switch to the canopy.
Are you indicating you won’t have a fan connected and only using it as a dimming circuit? Perhaps I’m not reading your question correctly.
Edit: you did say fan switch…@Eric_Inovelli maybe ask the engineers?
I’m planning to connect both light and fan to a switch as a load, but keep an opportunity to use the switch air gap to cut the power to the switch and to the canopy module, if necessary. Not that I’m planning to do that often, but in case I need to reboot the canopy module, I don’t want to run to the basement and turn off the light in multiple rooms.
Dunno if it’s too late, but it like to participate in the beta. I bought a 10-pack of 2-1 switches but wasn’t able to use them since the switches I intended to replace are for pull chain fans. I’ve since replaced one of them with this fandelier which comes with an RF canopy. I think this would be a good test case, as I have 6 Ikea ZigBee bulbs on it.
@harjms summed it up really good so I won’t add anything to it.
Regarding your question about whether to buy the Fan or the Light switch, that will depend on which you’d like to have the paddle control.
Right now how the switch will operate is:
Paddle controls one Endpoint (ie: Fan Speed or Light Dimming) via Zigbee Binding and the Favorites button will use scene control (multi-taps) to control the other Endpoint
So, if you want the paddle to control the Fan speed, then I suggest buying the Fan 2-1, whereas if you want the paddle to control the Light dim level, I would suggest buying the Light 2-1.
We are working on some other solutions (multiple Endpoint Binding, or using the favorites button to switch endpoints and have the LED Bar show what is being controlled) but I can’t guarantee it right now as we’re just getting the firmware tomorrow.
Hope this makes sense?
Well, we’re all full for this project, but I can get you on the list for another project if you’re interested? Just shoot me a PM and I can get you in one. I appreciate you guys volunteering!
I think this is the conundrum we’re in until we can get a firmware update to both the Fan and the Light 2-1. If you use the Fan switch to bind to the canopy module, you’ll have to control the fan portion of the fan module because the fan switch does not support 0-100 levels (only Low, Medium, High) and vice versa, the Light 2-1 only supports 0-100, so it can’t be used for 3-Speed control with bindings.
Run this by me again? Sorry, long day. Are you saying you have two loads coming down from the fan (a light and a fan load) that you want to tie into a 2-1 switch so that when you air-gap it, it will cut the power to the canopy module, and thus, the fan/light?
If we’re talking about the VZM35 fan switch it does support 0-100 levels. Its limitation is with the wired output directly to a fan motor which can only do L,M,H. But internally it’s 0-100 levels. Level 1-33 maps to low, 34-66 maps to med, 67-100 maps to hi.
This should not be a problem with bindings. When the the VZM31 light switch sends a setLevel=50 to the fan it should run the motor at medium speed (34-66 range). And similarly for low and high with corresponding level ranges
This is where I get confused. I thought the internals had three relays and therefore can only support low, medium and high. Ergo, 1-33 = relay 1, 34-66 = relay 2, 67-100 = relay 3.
Maybe we’re saying the same thing idk. But my understanding is that you can’t have the switch output a value of 25%.
Otherwise why wouldn’t we just use the 2-1 on the fan and map the firmware to low, medium, high?
The difference is whether we’re talking about the switch directly controlling fan speed via the wired load terminal, or if we’re talking about the switch sending commands wirelessly (bindings or scenes) .
The wired load is limited to the 3 speeds. But with the canopy module we’re talking about control via wireless commands (bindings or scenes) since it has no buttons. The wireless commands support the full 0-100 range. You can set the fan to “level 25” and if it is bound to other devices, that is the level it will send.
You don’t use the Dimmer 2-1 for fans because the load is inductive and requires a different type of dimmer circuitry than lights which are resistive. There are no relays in the VZM35. It has two large capacitors. One for Low Speed, the other for Medium Speed, and no capacitor provides full power for High speed. This is essentially the same as the pull-chain except its switched electronically instead of mechanically.
Basically we’re talking about Smart Fan mode where (if enabled) the Load Terminal will always output 100% and the binding commands will be sent to the canopy with levels 0-100. At this point I’m assuming the fan portion of the canopy module will work the same as the fan switch with two capacitors and ranges 1-33, 34-66, 67-100
When it comes to pairing, will there be a way to pair the device without access to the unit? Say our Zigbee network is replaced after the initial setup, will we need to pull the fan/light down from the ceiling in order to re-pair it?
Yes, I believe we are implementing a power off, power on sequence (ie: cut power for 2 seconds, restore power for 2 seconds - repeat 6x) or something similar.
Some of the fancy ceiling fans have the capability to do “natural wind” mode, where the fan speed would randomly go between low and middle (and high?), with random duration before each speed change.
So on the SW side, would we be able to code this into one of the “modes” that the canopy module would support, so that, idk, I could brag about this tangible “upgrade” to our otherwise bland ceiling fan, and thus improving the approval rate / acceptance in the family, while being a hero in my family of not buying an entire fan altogether (reducing land waste or whatever) just for the fancy natural wind feature? (I know some of the us would totally do that.)
WAF is no joke.
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On the HW side, for testers out there, please help make sure that the canopy module being able to accommodate inrush currenct, which per wikipedia page could be several times of their normal full-load current… or at least the module has the design considerations to accommodate so. I have read it somewhere else that the inrush being 5x, 7x, 10x of full load.
After all, some of the bigger ceiling fans comes with relatively powerful (AC) motors. And we don’t want something up high being prone to overheat. If we take 7x to estimate, 2Amp load could draw up to 14A before we reach full speed.
Alternatively, we can code some starting sequence…? Say, if you want the fan to go high speed, the module would help move it to low for x seconds, and then mid for y seconds, before moving to high…?
Yeah totally, I think we have this in the FW, but I’ll double check. We had a similar feature on our old model called, “Breeze Mode” where it alternated between low/med.
Let me make sure this is accounted for with the engineers, thanks for pointing this out!
Quick update: We received the beta units last Friday and I had the opportunity to test them myself over the weekend (the other units are being sent out today/tomorrow to the rest of the team).
First impressions:
Solid feel - plastic feels heavy and constructed well
Very small compared to the first generation which is nice
Long wires and antenna
Overall it looks and feels nice. Very happy!
Here are some pictures comparing Gen 1 vs Gen 2 (Blue is the current model, Black is the previous model):
Finally, a video of me controlling the fan and light. Please note that I’m not using Zigbee bindings here, but rather multi-tap scene control, so it will be faster. But I still think it’s fast.
The inrush should be fine but if you wanted to made it start softer then a minimum ramp time like 1-2s would reduce it a lot. Even 0.5s or so would help. It would use the lower speed capacitors to reduce the inrush and magnetize the windings before going to full voltage.
Another three (which might have been discussed already, but here they are):
(A & B being the breeze mode and the accommodation for inrush current, respectively, per #211 above.)
== C ==
What are the options for the light/fan status after power outages? In other words, what are the default states when we supply AC power to the canopy module?
In the world of smart bulbs, the defaults can be off / on / previous state.
However, could we users config the defaults being “on and at 3% brightness” or “on and 90%”?
Or maybe that’s too much… maybe making it a long list of defaults – 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% … 100% / off / previous – would be pretty good already.
For fans, I suppose the default options of on/off/previous are probably common. But could we have 5 default options as in low / mid / high / off / previous.
Could users config those “light and fan defaults when power comes back” independently?
== D ==
For the light dimmer, do we have fade-in / fade-out when turning light on / off?
If yes, would be great if either or both are configurable. Yes/No options are great; options of 0/1/2/3 seconds are even better.
== E ==
Also for the light dimmer, and to accommodate various of types of bulbs out there, would be great to have the “low trim” feature, where we could setup a minimum brightness without flickering and can turn on reliably.
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We likely have implemented the above in other dimmers already. (For example I see parameters similar to the above in the documentations for LZW31.) So mostly just want to make sure we could be expecting the same on this canopy module.
I hope the above is not asking too much.
I started working on the parameter page so you can get an idea of what is currently on the module – we can certainly add to this list (if it’s too big of an ask, it may have to move to after production).
So, to answer your questions 1 by 1:
Yes, this is possible (and already possible on our current switches) – see Parameter 15 for the Light and Parameter 15 for the Fan. You can choose for the behavior to be off when the power is restored. You can choose it to go to any percentage you want when the power is restored. Finally, you can have it go to the last state when the power is restored.
Exactly, this is how we envision it too and how it’s currently implemented
Yes
Yes, this is configurable (both fade in and fade out). Parameters 3 and 4 allow to to adjust the Fade On whereas Parameters 7 and 8 allow you to adjust the Fade Off behavior.
Definitely available! Parameter 9 allows you to adjust the minimum level and Parameter 10 allows you to adjust the maximum level.
I think they even put a new feature (Parameter 34) that provides a, “Quick Start” to bulbs that need a quick surge to turn on and then ramp up.
Definitely not – the good news is this module has been a culmination of the past 6 years of us building light switches alongside the community who has these amazing ideas that you just laid out.
