Reading this thread, it sounds like (at least some) MOSFET dimmer implementations can work either on the leading or trailing edge, depending on when the gate signal is switched. I assume (and hope) that this gate comes from the SOIC that makes the switch smart. If so, there’s some hope that a firmware update could make these switches run with trailing-edge.
@Eric_Inovelli@EricM_Inovelli there do seem to be at least some folks interested in this- does your manufacturer think it’s possible? If so, perhaps a forum poll to gauge real interest before you pay them to write new firmware. There’s the small detail of bifurcating firmware branches, since some people won’t want to lose non-neutral 3-way detection, but that’s a problem for down the road. For now: is it possible with existing hardware? If yes, is there enough demand to make it happen? You know how I’d vote…
Edit- better yet, firmware that can handle both gate timings would keep everyone on the same branch, assuming appropriate checks are implemented to disable functions that won’t work when using reverse-phase mode.
Not to shoot down your bulbs, but Feit bulbs have been known to cause issues with other switch manufacturers too. I had Feit bulbs (from Costco) with my a red series dimmer and it was very choppy (never did have flashing issues though). I changed out the bulbs where I could in my last home.
I’ve always wondered what are different about Feit that Zooz explicitly calls them out. We’ve used a couple of Feit LEDs on red and black dimmers and didn’t notice anything odd.
I don’t dispute that Feit bulbs are cheaply made and of generally poor quality- too many reports of issues. However, the one Blue I have installed replaced a Zooz Zen 27- that circuit consists of six Feit bulbs in ceiling cans. The Zen 27, which uses trailing edge dimming, worked perfectly wrt dimming- no buzzing, flickering, or flashing. The Blue 2-1 that replaced it causes a noticeable buzz when dimming below 90%, and is incapable of driving those bulbs to very low dimming levels. I have other bones to pick over the Zen 27, but in terms of dimming it’s by far thr better choice for my single room with Feit bulbs.
Wow. I didn’t realize these were so widely disliked. Okay so noted about them not being high quality bulbs. I’ll look for others as I gradually replace them. Its just unfortunate because my previous switches didn’t show off their flaws.
You can look here for some potential candidates. I wouldn’t replace all at once. Maybe try a couple from HD and see which work. If they don’t work, return for refund.
Changing bulbs isn’t always an option - I have many fixtures that use odd sizes/shapes for bulbs that have few options for LED replacement. The six LEDs running on my lone Blue 2-1 are all Feit because I’ve been unable to locate any other vendors making bulbs in that shape (that are LED - incandescent versions are still on the market, at least for now). The fixtures are staying, because my wife says so. I agree with her, not because of aesthetics, but because I spent a good chunk of change on the new zigbee switches… why should I then have to spend even more on new fixtures that can accept the subset of LEDs that are compatible with forward-phase dimming? Then I’d need to buy the bulbs, too. Still anxiously waiting for Inovelli to provide conclusive word on this issue…
I’m not sure how’s you’d expect any company to design any device that works with 100% of bulb manufacturers out there. Just because it’s all based on the same leading edge or trailing edge doesn’t guarantee it’s going to work with the hundreds or thousands of bulb makers.
If I had a chandelier that couldn’t be changed out due to aesthetic, costs, or desire, then I’d consider swapping in incandescent bulbs. If the fixture is only used a minimum amount of time then the cost of operation are negligible.
I don’t, but I would expect them to choose the dimming technology that is MOST compatible, which is NOT leading-edge. In the U.S., incandescent bulbs are soon to be much harder to come by, which means dimmers should be designed to work with their replacements (LEDs). Forward-phase dimming is not the best choice for LED compatibility.
I’m taking a stand on cost overages, here. I’m not willing to spend $1k on switches and then go out and blow more $ to replace the LEDs and fixtures that work perfectly fine with my existing zwave dimmers. I hate being stuck with the Zooz dimmers I have (not happy with responsiveness, nor with the feature set), but I may elect to keep them and pass on the 2-1s unless the dimming issue is solved.
Wider market for a single SKU (aka: non-neutral) beat out individual bulb compatibility.
Like, it’s done and out there. This is the blue series 2-in-1 switch. Changing to trailing edge dimming is NOT going to happen.
Non-neutral installations I guarantee you cover a substantially larger portion of the market than those with LED’s that can’t be changed and/or are incompatible with this dimmer.
We do the same thing. We still have lots of incandescent bulbs that need to be around for various reasons like this. Honestly as much as I want to be on the LED hype train, the actual savings seen is questionable at best with many different brands. Even “quality” LEDs have failed or started flickering after being only a year or two old. The cost savings in energy for us just hasn’t been realized compared to the flexibility and smooth dimming performance of a incandescent. Our power is cheap (7 to 8c per KWh) so I really need LED’s to last 5-10 years to pay for themselves.
Well, the engineer said detection of the dumb or aux switch is better with leading edge dimming, not that it’s impossible with trailing edge dimming. There has been no indication of how much harder or if software changes only could do it.
I agree. The energy savings is only realized if the bulb lifetime far exceeds that of the incandescents. The ‘marketing’ boast super long lifetime on the LEDs, but in reality that has not been my experience. So far, in my experience, LED have cost me more (higher upfront cost has not yet been offset by the energy savings).
I realize incans won’t be around much longer and I do run almost all LEDs in the house. But cost savings is not the reason.
@EricM_Inovelli Following up to see if a theoretical firmware update could change the leading/trailing edge setting? At the point where the other folks in the house are requesting that I sell/replace the switches due to the poor dimming functionality
And I’d like to request being able to dim even lower, if that’s possible via a firmware update. (At least for me, it’s fine if neutral is required for these dimming-related changes)
@kdkavanagh Unfortunately, our engineer has told us that it is not possible to change to trailing edge via firmware. At first it seemed like it may be possible if we were to disable aux / dumb switch detection, but later they determined that in that scenario it wasn’t possible either.
@dahanc I will have to check to see if this is possible.
