I’m having the same issue and am not able to figure out how to setup 3-way in the same setup OP has. The documentation clearly states that both switches need to be in Smart mode if you have 2 Smart Switches controlling the same load. However, as with OP only when I set my switch that is directly connected to the load to on/off mode can I control the load and only that switch can control it. My setup…
Switch 1 (at bottom of stairs) set to Smart Mode (without setting it this way switch 2 doesn’t get power).
Switch 2 (at top of stairs) set to On/Off - I can control the load with only that switch. Switch 1 does nothing.
Switch 2 (at top of stairs) set to Smart - Neither switch can control the load.
So following the documentation doesn’t work. That being said…what is the correct configuration of each or my switches to make 3-way work? I have everything in HA so am fine configuring things there but I want to make sure my switches are set to the correct modes before I make any changes in HA and the documentation seems incorrect.
I’m not exactly sure which documentation says that, but I have a feeling that it refers to a configuration involving using a smart bulb for the load. If you have the same configuration, that’s not the case for the OP and you.
If you have a dumb bulb as the load, the Inovelli in the load box should not have the SBM turned on. You want the switch to control the wired load, which the SBM prevents. The load box (in a neutral configuration) should have a hot and neutral wired to the line and neutral terminals. The switched hot conductor going to the load goes to the load terminal. The accompanying neutral conductor going to the light is connected to the other neutral terminal (or pigtailed, if need be.)
For a 3-way switch leg using another Inovelli, the other switch just gets a hot and neutral wired to the line and neutral terminals. It doesn’t need the SBM either; however, since there is no wired load on this switch, it really doesn’t matter.
So the 2nd Inovelli is essentially a scene controller. You can use it to control the switch containing the load via an automation. Also, if matter/thread has an equivalent of Zigbee binding or Z-wave associations, that can also be used to control the load switch. I don’t know if that is a thing, however.
Please post a link to the documentation you referred to.
Manual Setup Section
Switch Configuration (Single-Pole or Multi-Way) - Based on this table I would expect Multi-way (Toggle) because my switch is a multi-way (as determined by the wiring type guide above this section - 2 smart switches controlling the same load is multiway). I’ve tried both toggle and aux versions, both don’t allow me to control the load. Only Single-Pole config allows light control from one switch.
Switch Mode (On/Off, Dimmer or Smart)
See the note of “Smart Bulb Mode is used if 2+ Smart Switches are on the same circuit.” This seems to suggest that because this is a 3-way where power is provided to one of the switches to the other, they are on the same circuit, and thus would be set to Smart Bulb mode.
I feel like OP and I are running into the same confusion with the documentation which is why we both aren’t sure how to setup the switches in the correct mode.
Is the correct switch configuration to have Switch 1 (switch providing power to switch 2) in Smart mode and Switch 2 (the switch connected to the load) be in Single Pole, On/Off mode? If yes and I then need to proceed to configuration in HA to bind the switches together, that’s fine, I’m just still not clear on why Switch 1 would be Single Pole, On/Off mode when it’s clearly a multiway switch. However, setting Switch 1 to multiway prevents switch 1 from being able to control the load.
I see the quote about putting the switches in the SBM, but that’s misleading and not always correct.
Since Switch 1 does NOT have a wired load, and the purpose of SBM is to ensure the wired load (which doesn’t exist) is always at full output, I don’t believe it makes any difference. If someone disagrees with me, they’ll respond.
If used with a dumb bulb and the switch is going to be controlled via an automation, yes. However, if you want the switch to act as a dimmer, then set it to the dimmer mode.
I don’t use HA, so if you’re going to bind/associate/whatever Matter/thread calls it, I’m guessing those settings will also work, but a HA user should confirm.
It’s a VIRTUAL 3-way, completely different from a WIRED 3-way. If you set the switch to a 3-way, then it will listen on the traveler conductor for signaling from the other switch. The switch will not function properly since there is no traveler conductor (and no, you can’t add one when using two Inovelli switches).
I guess I’m confused how I would setup at all then. Leaving HA out of it…what is the correct setup for a pair of White Switches that need to control a single dumb load?
I’m not clear that Switch 1 (not connected to the load) could be anything except Smart Mode, otherwise when you turn switch 1 off, switch 2 will power off fully and the load can’t be controlled. It seems Smart mode is the only way to pass power from Switch1 to Switch 2 no matter what.
Is it impossible to setup multi-way without HA or some other hub? If so; why doesn’t the documentation outline this? It says you just need to configure using the switch and it should work.
I don’t want to use automations to control anything. I want my family to be able to use the light switches like they always have. Yes, the switches will be in HA as part of my overall Smart Home but I can’t find anything in the guide that having them in HA or another system is required to make multi-way work. The guide makes it seem simple, set the switch configuration and switch mode to the wiring configuration being used. It should work. However, it does not.
I’m not trying to be difficult; I am just not understanding what the expected switch configuration and switch mode is supposed to be for a very standard 3-way (multiway) switch setup.
Leave out HA, Apple HomeKit, etc, just what is the setup of the switches supposed to be
EDIT: I see you added some info. This is absolutely a wired 3-way. I have a travel connector between the two white switches. If the OP didn’t, I apologize I didn’t realize that, so my setup is not identical to OP’s.
Aww that maybe my issue then. Your comment made me re-look at the wiring guide. So 2 smart switches together for controlling 1 dumb load should NO LONGER use the traveler line. I didn’t notice that. So if I disconnect the traveler line what is the correct setup of the switches though before I worry about anything in HA, Home Kit, etc…?
Other switch, just powered with a hot and neutral.
You can’t leave a hub out of the equation, however. The other switch is a scene controller only. If you use automations to control the load switch, you’ll need a hub. If you bind/associate/whatever Thread/Matter calls it, if it’s even a thing, you’ll still need a hub to set that up.
The challenge you will encounter when using the first Smart Switch (without load) is that, there is no way to initiate grouping/associations at the matter level yet, because it cannot be set via a hub. Innovelli has included this feature in their firmware, but currently, no hubs support it.
If you don’t want to wait, using an AUX Switch is an alternative. However, this approach doesn’t meet my wife’s approval since the AUX switches are not illuminated.
Yeah…after more digging last night I realized that while the documentation makes it seem like this is already supported without needing a hub, the reality is it’s not supported on the hardware level and requires a hub to make it work. I was unable to find anything in HA that would allow me to bind these together and setup a 3-way. I understand these are brand new switches but it’s frustrating the documentation makes it seem like this should just work out of the box when in reality multiway won’t work at all unless there’s a hub supporting the configuration, which doesn’t exist right now.
I understand your frustration, but just so it’s clear:
Matter binding IS supported at the hardware level on the switch.
It does require a hub to provision, but the fact that HA or any hub for that matter does not support it is beyond Inovelli’s control.
Zwave associations, Zigbee binding, and now Matter binding have always required a hub to implement. It has nothing to do with the fact these switches are new. AFAIK, it’s always been that way . . . not only for Inovelli, but for other manufacturers’ smart devices as well.
The Inovelli switch comparison matrix notes that Matter bindings are built into the switch but that bindings are not yet supported by hubs. It sounds as if there is something you found that is misleading, so if you can post that here, I’m sure Inovelli will correct it.
Would Inovelli make the detailed documentation accessible how to manipulate the Cluster attributes to setup a binding ?
If those (and ACL changes on the nodes) are documented (maybe with example payloads), we could use the Matter Server (HA) API to push those payloads via script…
Thank you Peter for linking that other thread. I will follow that as well. My workaround (I think) is I’ll setup an automation so that when my switch in the 3-way, that provides power to switch 2 and isn’t connected to load, is turned “on” it will also set the switch connected to the load to “on” as well. Same for when it’s turned off. Yes, this keeps HA in the mix and isn’t perfect as I’d like to bind them at the switch level BUT at least it would accomplish what I’m looking for without having to rip out the switch controlling the load and putting my dumb switch back.
I do suspect matter binding will come to HA at some point, which would resolve all this very easily and would rather keep the Inovelli switches in place while waiting for that. I saw you bought enough switches for your whole house, which is also what I plan to do I just got 10 to start and mess around with though.
I guess i should clarify what I meant when I said, “supported on the hardware level”. Probably would have made more sense to say, “supported out of the box”. The documentation makes it sound like multiway is supported right out of the box, without the need of a hub or further intervention. It has guides on how to configure it (hold up and press config x amount of times, etc) but it doesn’t really state that while I can set my switch to multiway using the switch itself, multiway won’t work without some way of bind the switches together. There really should be some note on the switch configuration pages saying something like “NOTE: While you can set the Wiring Type to Multiway, you must have a hub that supports Matter Binding for this to fully function” or something like that. Matter Binding is called out further in the guide but if you’re following the instructions step by step, you would expect the multi-way to work during the Manual Setup phase and may then spend hours trying to figure out why it’s not without fully understanding that Matter Binding is required for it which is what I did. It wasn’t until I posted here and saw your responses, I realized this aspect and it all clicked in my head.
OK…I have homekit only, 2 white switches that I want in a 3-way with a dumb light, dimmable.
Are you telling me that this is impossible right now?
If it is possible: can someone point me to a wiring diagram and the necessary paddle+config button press sequences for both switches.
Correct. As far as I’m aware it’s impossible right now without “hacking” into the switch to force bindings which apparently a few people have done but it’s not something most would be comfortable doing. I worked around this by setting up an automation every time either switch is turned off/on to turn its partner switch off/on but it relies on a hub to automate so it can take a few seconds for the light to turn off/on so I wouldn’t recommend it. I may actually pull these switches out where my 3-way is and put the dumb switches back until this is supported without hacking being required.
I also feel Inovelli should be more upfront and honest that this really doesn’t work yet for these switches even though it’s supported. It needs to be clearer on the product page on the site, as well as in the manual that comes with the switches.
Actually… after looking back at the product page (which I hadn’t looked at in a long time, it feels like 6 months since I ordered these from the time I’m finally installing them)… it says:-
“Multi-Way Compatible”
But in the section just below its says:-
"4. Non-Neutral setups require a bypass (not included) and if you’re using it in a multi-way setting, you will need to purchase an Aux Switch. Finally, energy monitoring is not available in a non-neutral setup.
Which is very ambiguous. Does that apply to ONLY non-neutral setups (I have neutral wires).
OR is it '“ANY multi-way setting requires an Aux switch” (whether you are neutral or not).
Anyhoo… I’ve ordered 3 AUX switches now , as it does seem like this setup is at least documented in this page under the section that says “Multi-Way (3-Way) + Auxiliary / Add-On Diagrams”
(if it works: bonus is that the AUX switches are $22 each).
Yes. In a non-neutral you may need a bypass to ensure the switch gets sufficient power. Not sure if there is something different about the white where it’s absolutely required, but it’s not a bad idea to add one at the outset.
No, in a neutral config you can mate with a dumb switch or an Aux. Aux is mandatory with a non-neutral. Generally speaking, mating with an Aux is more reliable than mating with a dumb switch. However, if you are going to use the Smart Bulb Mode, you may need an Aux as well.
Thanks Bry for the clarification.
There seem to be no wiring or switch setup instructions for (two smart switches, with neutral, dimmable dumb load ), so I think I’ll just wait until I get some aux switches
The wiring when using multiple smart switches is the same as the Blue and the Red. The primary switch carries the load. The other switches simply need a hot and a neutral sent over two of the conductors between them.
As a reminder, the control between them is limited to the use of automations at present. Binding for the White series is not presently supported by hubs and the only published technique is apparently difficult. Since you are using dimmable bulbs, the Aux maybe a better route for you, as you mentioned.
since the AUX switches are not illuminated.
I just got 10 to start and mess around with though.