I have been using the custom DTH, recently though ,after last firmware update V30.5, I started to use Secure inclusion on all my switches and tried the stock DTH on one I was having trouble with. After realizing S2 and S0 weren’t very communicative and the delays/failures to execute commands, I excluded eveything and readded in Classsic but with custom DTHs. The other switches I have are WWST Cert, with the ST DTH I get similar results with S2 inclusion and have to wait a day or so after multiple network repairs for associations to work.
I will follow the above steps the next couple days and see where I get.
Just to clarify, I am personally on the most heavily used shard and this is not impacting the performance of my things.
I’m kinda new with smart devices, just 2 years or so.
at first I only had some wifi switches and a schlage zwave lock, this being the reason I first decided to get a ST hub, later I decided to change everything wifi to zigbee/zwave. I had the idea that having a hub not only would speed up my experience by running commands locally and not from the cloud like wifi devices, but it would free up my wifi network too.
the truth is that it kinda worked in the beginning but as I’ve added some more zigbee/zwave devices, I noticed they weren’t that fast, especially compared to my wifi devices. I don’t have a big smart home like some of you so I must not be wrong for expecting everything to run smoothly but it isn’t and it’s got worse in the last months: tons of lag, an app that frequently says that “can’t connect to the network”. IT EVEN GAVE ME A BLUE SCREEN in april (got the screenshot!) like those ms-windows was known for in the late 90s!!! devices going offline, having to wait in front of a door because it won’t unlock automatically, or going halfway a room without the lights not turning on because of the lag. should I have known that from the beginning, I wouldn’t have spent a penny in ST. the worst thing is I got another 2 hubs afterwards, one of which was a gift for my mother and mind you… she’s not familiar with smart devices and didn’t know what to do when some of the lights didn’t turn on so I needed to constantly keep an eye should the bulbs appeared offline and something needed a reboot at her tome.
plus… local execution? HAHAHAAHA, yeah, right. only those devices with the native and crappy device handlers they provide.
seriously, ST is a … mess!
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There can certainly be an initial learning curve with smart devices in general, as there are pros/cons to just about every option. Do you go with smart bulbs vs smart switches, what happens when the internet is down, etc…
Two quick tips for you:
- Make sure you build a solid mesh (Zigbee / Z-Wave)
- Don’t mix Z-Wave Plus and non-plus devices. Plus is like a fire hose, and non-plus is like a garden hose. If you mix them everything uses the garden hose so things respond slower.
If you are looking for local control, look into Hubitat some. They are out of stock right now, but have a great community and lots of former ST users.
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Same here. Moved onto Hubitat and its a monogamous relationship now!
Wanted to report back that @jody is helping me directly fix some of my issues. I’ll keep everyone posted but I do feel much better having someone directly attending to this video from ST, as this is definitely NOT what we ST users signed up for.
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I’m glad you’re getting help…my concern is…and has been for awhile, is that even when it’s fixed, something breaks soon thereafter. ST’s biggest problem is consistency. I hope you get it to work truly, my fear would be then in a couple months it slows down or breaks again. I’m not saying it will, but historically…that’s been ST’s MO.
I go back to my original assessment which is, if you are doing basic things like turning off lights, little to no automations outside of some smart lighting etc., are using only approved devices, no custom handlers, and so forth - ST will be solid and be very good. If your goal is to really “automate” or build a robust network of things with interconnections and whatnot, ST becomes less and less reliable. To be honest I’m tired of trying to FIX things and want to improve or make my home better. As of now, I feel most of my effort is directed to just making sure it’s not broken as opposed to making my smart home better.
I hope it works and I hope it stays working. You’ll have to let us know. Also, can you give us a run down of what you are using, what hubs, how many devices, etc. Would be good to understand that if they fix it, what level of complexity they are working with.
Tony
This applies to any hub that controls z-wave devices. In this case one device was storming the network.
Now let’s say you want to send a message to that that device. The moment a message is being sent to the radio and then transmitted over the mesh network, the hub cannot send another one until we have a solution to the message. Messages here were failing and it was taking 7 seconds per command. So if you want to send 8 messages, you get 56 seconds of wait before the message can be passed to the next device.
Update: @jody was a massive help with a few different aspects of the network.
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I had a bulb that was being used as a transfer point of information that was able to be taken offline via 3-way. Previously that was not the case (before a rebuild this morning), but he found it and got me to exclude.
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I was using the Inovelli DTH for the bulbs but instead changed them all to “RGBW Light” device type and they seem to work equally as well and have the same featureset. Sounds like Inovelli and ST team are working to update/clean up the Inovelli DTH, but for now, whatever.
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A couple other switches were acting up this morning during a repair, so I pulled the tabs to soft reset.
My first repair took 19 minutes and had failures. My last repair took 3 minutes 11 seconds and everything seems to be working from the app to lights within ~1 second perceived.
That said, Jody explained that the command must be resolved prior to issuing a new command per z-wave standards, so if I was too fast in commanding multiple lights to do something, it locked up and didn’t execute or took a REALLY long time (10+ seconds).
I’ll continue to report back, but for now it seems that I am in a useable and MUCH improved state. I recommend the following:
- Perform a z-wave network repair, leave the window open and ensure you record any detailed log items outside of started and finished.
- Any devices that are offline, inactive, or otherwise errored try to figure out what might be happening and repair.
- Ensure that any devices that might be interrupted (I need a GE Aux switch on my 3-way ugh) are not being used as transfer points. The mesh is healing, but errors take 6-7 seconds.
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@jody – thanks for your help, that’s awesome and encouraging!
@kreene1987, @jody – would you guys be willing to work with me on creating a, “how-to” or something similar where ST users can diagnose their issues and resolve it the way that you guys did? I’d like to post it in the ST section of the site so that if someone experiences the lag, or has similar issues, they can follow this guide and hopefully help their situation.
Again, thanks for the help and for posting your updates!
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Yeah I’m more than happy to provide a Wiki or troubleshooting advice based on my experience today. I definitely knew I had some gremlins, but @jody helped me nail them down and also added an explanation on WHY, which sometimes is even more important. Let me know where/what format and I’m in!
After some work I found that there were issues with a couple devices reporting intervals that were congesting the network at times I tested or peak periods, in addition to some Home Network issues I found after a power blip… Cleaning everything up helped and seeing the multiple commands bounce around I found most of my delays. Everything seems to work quicker with about a .5 - 1 Sec lag on avg (prior was all over the place from instant to 20+ Secs) across the network. I have 24 Z wave devices with only 6 battery operated in my network. The furthest devices are about 60’ away from the hub and work fine. Some things though through the cloud can still be laggy, but that maybe some connectivity issues elsewhere with my wifi mesh or Zigbee mesh congestion.
Is IQ Panel a subscription service, and if it is then I would expect near zero delays with it if I’m paying.
Edit- Thanks @jody and @kreene1987 for sharing your insight, input and experience, very helpful.
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That’s completely reasonable and understandable. However, I still maintain that ST itself has plenty of gremlins and for a lot of us is unreliable.
I’ll give you two examples. First being I have a couple ST motion and contact sensors that work fine, until they don’t. Typically after a firmware update to the hub, they lose connection and stop reporting. I know it’s tied to a firmware update as I can tell when they last reported. Nothing in the environment has changed, only the ST provided update. I can then get on my ladder, re-do the pairing process and they instantly pair again and work…until they don’t again. This is by most standards not acceptable. I have excluded and re-added them but the same process happens over and over again. Even worse…sometimes, if I can’t get on the ladder for awhile…they will magically pop back on…but not always. Again inconsistent.
Second, I was using an Inovelli switch (Red Series) with their custom DTH and had ton of automations around it using webCore. Best part, worked flawlessly for a good period of time. Then again (inconsistent) all of sudden without any change or additions to my network, it pretty much became unusable. I can’t be 100% sure but I also believe that was tied to a firmware update that kicked off this issue. I tried excluding, re-adding, checked wiring, etc…but no improvements.
I run z-wave repair often (or at least as of recent) to try and suss out issues. They all complete fine other than maybe one device that I have removed or are not using at the time, aka a plug or something (but as of now everything is in use). So I’m not seeing mesh errors at least not superficially.
As a bonus, I have one more story. I have a bunch of sengled RGB bulbs using ST’s handler. First bulb, rockstar…so much that I bought 5 more. Then I thought I got bad bulbs because first half wouldn’t pair.Then they finally did…didn’t work…but then did. (chalked that up to just bad luck)…then (here’s my theme) a firmware update came and suddenly they were unusable. Control was performed maybe 10% of the time. I used a switch to turn them on and off because ST control was impossible. I tried to troubleshoot with ST and was told something must be off in m network. So tried all the usual things. Nothing worked and I got little followup. Month or two later…miraculously they started working again. I did nothing, just fixed themselves and suddenly they respond.
My point of this is not to bash and hate on ST. I have been with them for MANY years and resisted investing in anything else as I truly believe it’s a great platform. But make no mistake, it’s tempermental and on any given day a firmware update may come and crush your devices. If you stick to basic functionality and only built in handlers…I’m sure it’s solid. However, most of us are trying to do more than that and if the answer is…well you can’t because it’ causes issues…that’s not the answer I want to hear when other hubs/ecosystems can support the advanced functionality.
I wish it was stable…I wish I didn’t have to unpair and re-create over 70+ devices…I wish I didn’t have to re-create my automations…however I would rather do that then wonder in the morning if things are broke…AGAIN and when the may magically fix again.
To all my ST users…I hope it works for you and stays solid…it IS the best looking and the most invested in platform so I wish you well. For me…time has just run out.
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Wanted to report back that I lost color control of the Ilumin bulbs with the RGBW handler recommended yesterday. From the moment they were swapped they didn’t follow circadian and I could not change temperature or color of the bulbs.
I am now back on the Inovelli DTH and it’s working fine. Delay seems to be minimal.
That is sad to hear…I’m glad the Inovelli DTH is working and the delay is minimal but it goes back to my assessment of all of this…it’s inconsistent. It works one day, then it doesn’t or degrades. Then something else works but will the Inovelli DTH still have minimal delay or work in a week.
Where most of us doing this is in an effort to make things easier and more automated in our home, when these things break it is very apparent to others impacted, aka, family, friends, etc. This constant battle just can’t be the answer.
I hope Hubitat can give me the stability I crave and the response time. If not, it will be off to Homey to try, or I will have to dive fully into HA. One of these companies will get it right 90% of the way.
Good luck @kreene1987
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I understand your sentiment, but please understand that issues like these are being reported across every platform you mentioned. This is not just a “SmartThings Problem”
https://community.inovelli.com/t/slow-and-unreliable-rgbw-in-ha-controlled-by-red-series-switch
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@jody I don’t doubt it. Again, I’m not pretending that other platforms may or may not have issues. This is not me saying that ST is the worst. This is merely a, “I’ve tried with smartthings for close to 6 years, but I need to move on.” When folks moved over to ST back in the day, I’m sure there were posts like this from those platforms saying it’s happening everywhere…of course. No hub is perfect. The issue now is that ST is now more pain than joy.
Perhaps if I try another platform, if they all are worse…I’ll come back. I’m not selling my ST hub, it will just collect dust. Latency isn’t the only issue, random disconnects requiring re-pairing, suddenly working then stopping, firmware updates that push WITHOUT my consent that ultimately break something. There’s a lot of things wrong ST that needs to be fixed. If they do, I’ll come back.
A response of…“well everyone has problems” is not a good response. Just because others have issues is not a reason to stay with a bad platform. I may go to Hubitat and have tons of problems. Then I find the next until one that works reliably for my needs. Right now, that is not ST for the numerous, plethora of reasons I have listed previously.
Moreso, I’m not the only one going through this…it’s a very real issue across ST’s user base. Heck on reddit just recently V3 hubs were going out lol.
Jody I commend you on your championing of ST, but it’s definitely not all user issues and ST has to own up for some of the issues they cause.
Recent Beta ST Firmware loaded last night. So far testing shows improved response times and a few other improvements overall. Direct Associated devices seem to have improved responses as well. And following @jody 's advice of waiting for the messages to get where they need to go and back before sending more commands, makes sense and has shown less timeouts. @kreene1987 I tried the WWST Multi-Color DTH with the LZW-42 and had similar results. The Inovelli DTH appears to perform better. I do notice a pink hue when set to red, definitely not a dark red. The color temps appear to be accurate with them just some colors appear over saturated. I am running 3 in a fan light combo directly associated to a Red Series Dimmer for now (eagerly awaiting my fan/switch 
). Fan/Light is on a dumb switch with the Dimmer acting as a scene controller for those lights(no load) and provide virtual 3 way options for the Kitchen and hall lamps (and party modes lol), etc.
EDIT: Updated to latest DTH just after posting, accurate colors/hues
I fully agree with this statement. When there were z-wave firmware issues I worked with our engineers to address those and I never said they were the fault of the user. I also made an effort to be transparent about what we did before, and what we did to fix it. I am willing to help any Inovelli users to troubleshoot their devices on ST and up to this point I haven’t been able to find a root cause that wasn’t traced back to an errant device or DTH.
In this case I am truly championing Inovelli here because I have six of the devices in my own home and will probably add more. (Also have the fan switch pre-ordered). I have good motivation for wanting them to work in my own house.