On/Off Switch (Red Series) | Project Lights Out (v2.0)

Switches General Discussion
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This will be an area where we’ll discuss improvement opportunities for our On/Off Switch (Red Series) in terms of hardware and firmware.

Feel free to list anything from examples you’d like to see implemented (ie: I want to be able to change the dim level based on certain times of day), hardware features you’d like to see upgraded (ie: 700 Series Z-Wave) or firmware features you’d like to see added (ie: instant on for the switch).

Looking forward to improving the switch!

Suggestions
This will be an area where suggestions are captured and commented on. Thank you all for the ideas and we’ll do our best to implement them!

Suggestion #1 - Instant On Optimization
Credit: The Bearded Tech Guy via YouTube

Currently, the switch has about a 0.3-0.5 second delay when manually turning the light on. This is because the switch is waiting to see if a second tap happens (for scene control). This is an unfortunate side effect of having scene capability on switches. However, we do believe there is a solution.

  • Solution #1 (Easiest) = Give the user the ability to disable scenes on the paddle in lieu of Instant-On. There would still be scene control on the favorites/config button.
  • Solution #2 = Same as Solution #1, but we add more scenes on the config button. The only problem with this is that a double-tap of the config button is what clears the notifications. Possibly we could make it so if a notification is running a double tap will clear the notification and if there are no notifications, a double tap would activate a scene.

Status: TBD

Suggestion #2 - Momentary Switching Ability
Credit: @thetech101

Have the built in ability to change your switch to a momentary switch where regardless of where you press on the switch, the switch will alternate on/off. Example: If your light is on and you press up on the paddle, the switch will go off. If you press up again, the switch will turn on. If you press down on the switch, it will then turn off. Finally, if you press down on the switch again, it will turn back on.

Reference Thread: Using both sides of the rocker to turn on the LZW30-SN

Status: TBD

Suggestion #3 - Separate Association Groups
Credit: @jtronicus

Add separate association groups to allow controllers w/out scene control to experience the double/triple tap, etc.

Reference URL: On/Off Switch (Red Series) | Project Lights Out (v2.0) - #19 by jtronicus

Status: TBD

Suggestion #4 - Scene Control via Aux Switch
Credit: @Automate, @Jonathan

Give the switch the ability to execute scenes from the aux switch.

Reference URL: On/Off Switch (Red Series) | Project Lights Out (v2.0) - #48 by Jonathan

Status: TBD

Suggestion #5 - Ability to Disable Config Button
Credit: Ticket from Site

Allow there to be either a security setting to enter config mode or a way to disable it so that it cannot be edited in commercial (or personal) settings.

Status: TBD

V1 Bug Fixes
This will be an area where bugs are reported for V1 and squashed in the next update. Thank you all for finding them. As you can imagine, there are so many different variables, it’s hard to test everything, so we appreciate your help!

Bug #1 - Power Restore State Optimization When Local Control is Enabled
Credit: @wsdavis for finding and @jtronicus for testing

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Hey Eric, the scene-detection-delay (suggestion #1) is my biggest gripe with the Jasco switches and why I held off buying these new Inovelli originally (because they had the same issue w/ the original firmware).

Solution #3 could be to have a new mode where you use the config button as a modifier button (like a ctrl/alt key on the keyboard). So if you hold the config button, you enter “scene” mode and it works as it did before. Otherwise the switch behaves like a normal “instant-on” switch. Not sure how that conflicts with the actual “config” mode, but it seemed like most of the operations required multiple presses/much longer periods of time for the button being held.

With this solution you lose one scene, but at least you still get to use scenes (unlike Solution #1). Downside is that it might be awkward to press 1 handed, but I don’t have one in front of me to try.

Another thing to note is that the issue is not just “instant-on”, but also “instant-response-to-dimming”. Once we’re in this “fast” mode and the light is already on, then the switch should immediately start dimming up and down once a button is pressed and held. Maybe should add a short delay before dimming starts (configurable?), otherwise it might feel too “twitchy” or sensitive.

Solution #3 is a more complicated change, but seems like a good compromise. Otherwise I’d vote for #1 as just being clean and simple option.

2 Likes
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Is there a way to disable the internal relay with a nice change or webcore? Trying to keep the hardwired main light in the nursery from coming on accidentally during night feedings. If not, can this feature be added with a firmware update?

BTW, congrats Eric on your own new addition!

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Hey @Mfwalsh - thanks for the congrats! And sounds like one is in store for you as well (I’m assuming based on your use case)!

If I’m reading it correctly, are you wanting a way to schedule via webcore or some other app to have the relay disable itself during certain times of day or based on certain events?

If so, let me check with the wizard himself, Eric M.

That would be a cool use case for sure!

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Exactly, would like the relay disabled when in night mode

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@EricM_Inovelli - I swore you told me the answer to this before (sorry) but is this possible?

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Hi @Mfwalsh, in the next version of the device handler there will be an option to create a “child device” for local & remote protection. This will allow you to use these two features in any automation that supports the “switch” capability. So you could set something like “if system is in night mode, then turn on the disable local control switch”.

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Great, looking forward to it. Any idea on ETA?

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No exact ETA, but it shouldn’t be too long.

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Now that I have some experience using the switch, I have some suggestions:

  1. Definitely would love to have the instant on optimization (Suggestion #1 above). I’m going to implement a state machine in Home Assistant so I can do creative things with multiple button presses myself - I just want the event to be sent immediately every time the button is pressed. The current delay is the one thing I really dislike.
    1a) Thinking about Solution #2 (adding more scenes to the config button). Have you considered doing config things (e.g. inclusion/exclusion, reset, etc) via a combination of buttons? E.g. press and hold config while pressing paddle up. If your circuitry allows for detecting multiple simultaneous button pushes, that would give you more flexibility in the use of the buttons.

  2. I would like a way to configure power-on relay state. I have the local relay control disabled, since I’m using smart bulbs. When power goes out (or I pull the manual power disconnect on the switch itself), and comes back on, the relay remains off and my lights don’t work. I want to be able to configure the switch to turn on the relay automatically when power comes on. For now, I’ve assigned the config button to control the relay switch, but would like to not have to worry about this. I’m imagining that some day, power goes out while I’m not home, then I have to coach my wife on how to get the lights working again.

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In Hubitat there is a “State After Power Restored” that can be set to On does that not work when the relay is disabled? I use the relay so I haven’t tried it. Or is that option not available on other hubs?

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You’re right - that is one of the z-wave config parameters. Documentation states that it defaults to the last setting, which implies the switch should be working the way I want. But when I pull the air gap switch, then return it back to normal, the relay remains off. I assumed that the air gap switch would simulate a power outage - but maybe my assumption was wrong there. @Eric_Inovelli Does the switch ignore the “Power On State” setting when using the air gap switch?

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I did some experimenting, and it looks to me like the power is not restored if the relay is disabled.

Relay Status Power on State Config Light Status when power lost Light status when Power Restored
Enabled Previous State Off Off
Enabled Previous State On On
Enabled On Off On
Enabled On On On
Enabled Off Off Off
Enabled Off On Off
Disabled Previous State Off Off
Disabled Previous State On Off
Disabled On Off Off
Disabled On On Off
Disabled Off Off Off
Disabled Off On Off

In addition, it doesnt look like the switch sends a status update to the zwave controller on power restore either, so if the relay is disabled and the power goes out while the light was on, the zwave network still thinks the light is on when power is restored.

2 Likes
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@jtronicus Thanks for verifying! @Eric_Inovelli @EricM_Inovelli can we expect this to be fixed in a later firmware update?

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I saw the same issue when most reliable power company…DTE…decided I should have a power outage for a few minutes. Would be nice to get this fixed.

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Since this can be used as a 3-way switch, there should always be power on either the load wire or the traveler wire, right? When the switch is on, the load wire is active and the traveler wire is not. When the switch is off, the traveler wire is active and the load wire is not. Since you are disabling the internal relay anyways, couldn’t you just connect the light to the traveler wire instead of load and leave the switch “off”?

Its probably not the ideal solution, but it could be a temporary fix if you absolutely need the light to work when the power comes back on.

I have not tested this myself though, as I am currently away from home.

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I’d also like to give an upvote for instant on solution #1. Currently my biggest problem with the switch is the delay when turning it on/off.

Additionally, it would be nice to be able to have instructions on how to set the status light from Homeseer. I couldn’t find instructions on how to do that online.

2 Likes
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Hey guys, this is definitely a bug and I’ll put it in for a fix in a future firmware update.

2 Likes
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Another suggestion:

In addition to scene commands on double/triple/etc tap, it would be nice to have separate association groups. This would allow additional functionality for controllers that do not support central scenes.

Group Type Function
Group 1 Lifeline Status reporting Already exists
Group 2 Basic On/off Single tap on/off Already exists
Group 3 Remote dimming May allow a user to dim a connected smart bulb when the relay is disabled or to control dimming on another zwave device
Group 4 Basic On/Off Double tap On/off
Group 5 Basic On/Off Triple tap On/off
etc
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Awesome, I just put it up at the top for an enhancement – thanks for sharing!

I’ll admit, it’s above my head (@EricM_Inovelli would know so don’t worry) but basically are you saying that if a HUB didn’t support the Central Scene Command Class, you could somehow associate a Button Push with a certain Group (ie: Button 2 Pushed/Held would be in Group 4, Button 3 Pushed/Held in Group 5, etc)?

If so, that’s pretty cool.

If we can somehow add that to the config button to set that up as well, that would be amazing as I’m assuming most Hub’s that do not have the Central Scene Command Class likely also do not have a way to edit parameters. So, if you could set it up from the config button, that would certainly open up possibilities for Ring, Wink (RIP), and others.